Airline Pilot Forums

Local Council 171 – July 29, 2012 Update



Mounting Failures



Team smisek is setting new records and entering undiscovered territory each and every day. No other management team has accumulated so many failures in such a short time. I’ll touch on just a few that affect our lives:



VJM: Have you ever seen so many VJM notices? Absolutely unbelievable. We have been using VJM all year and now at an even more unprecedented rate. That represents a huge failure of management to staff this airline correctly.



Alleged increase in sick leave: The company informs us daily that our sick leave is at unprecedented levels. If that is true, it indicates another management failure. Management must recognize that man and machine require scheduled down time and maintenance. We, as a pilot group, have been pushed beyond the breaking point. With no time to recharge our collective batteries, we just break down. Any increase in sick leave is most likely a direct result of this schedule abuse. When you are worn down and tired you are more susceptible to illness. Management Failure!!



Schedule Reliability: We have all seen how bad the operation is. Personally it embarrasses me to see how bad things are going. I care about my passengers and want to give great service. We hear the complaints from our passengers and see firsthand just how bad things are. Late aircraft: no gates: poor catering: and the list goes on. Management Failure!!



PBS Failures: How many times has PBS failed this year? I lost count. Management Failure!!



Industry Leading Contract: Your management team has failed to compensate this pilot group as it should. Management wants you to pay for their failures. This is not a broke airline. Management gets industry leading compensation and so should the pilots. Is mr smisek really worth 14 million a year? I don’t see any indication of it. Management Failure!!



Welcome On Board



Management would like nothing more than to never hear the name Continental Airlines again. Unfortunately for them, there are still thousands of employees that work for Continental Airlines. I have traveled to IAD several times this year from DFW. It is usually on United Express. Each and every time I have traveled I hear ”Welcome on board United Express flight 123 operated by Skywest Airlines” I see no difference here than “operated by a legacy Continental Airlines crew”. My AFM says Continental Airlines, my FOM says Continental Airlines, we work for Continental Airlines. This merger is not over for the pilots until we have a contract that says United Airlines. Our FOM states that part of our responsibility in making PA’s to the passengers is to tell the truth. That’s all I am asking.



“Welcome on board United Flight 223 proudly operated by the pilots and flight attendants of Continental Airlines.”



Don’t add to it and don’t get “political” with it. Just plain and simple. If Jeff wants this stopped then maybe he should show up to at least one session with the negotiation committee.



As always I want to tell you I am battle star ready. Please keep your frustration and emotion out of the cockpit. There will always be a place and time to demonstrate our resolve for the JCBA. Tomorrow in DC is a good place. Fly Safe. Stay informed and contact your Reps regularly



Captain Eric Hunter

Local Council 171 Chairman





Houston:



Communications at this point are….complicated. Nonetheless, Eric and I understand that information and an honest assessment of our present position are necessary and vital. The company remains reluctant to negotiate an agreement that is acceptable or ratifiable. As CAL Pilots, we need to acknowledge that CAL management has never had to pay industry-leading wages to our Pilots, therefore the management team that frank built finds themselves in “undiscovered territory”. In order to give credit where credit is due, Captain’s Jay Heppner and Jay Pierce have not accepted any substandard proposal that the company has offered; The JNC has remained steadfast in seeking an agreement that is appropriate to the world’s largest airline; the NMB has NOT rejected our multiple requests for release.



Team smisek is stealing $58 million dollars a month from our Pilot group when compared to the Delta Pilot group, while insatiably compensating themselves far more than their management counterparts at Delta and the other major airlines.

http://www.theunfriendlyskies.org/the-facts/united-executive-compensation/



As Pilots, we truly wish to fly safe and on time and make our aircraft an enjoyable reward, for circumnavigating the TSA, the United Reservation System, the boarding process, and smisek’s face on the welcome aboard video; it is an absolute shame that our passengers have to endure those 3 situations in order to reach the safe and enjoyable service that our flight crews provide. The aggregate 12,505 pilots of this airline will continue to operate professionally, but will not ignore the fact that the Delta Pilot on the crew bus works for a company that treats their Pilots with over $600 millions dollars a year in “dignity and respect”; and Delta did that 7 months early, as opposed to the January 2009 amendable date that our management disregards. At this point, I have no idea as to whether ignorance or arrogance is to blame for our management’s abysmal performance. It should be obvious that the pilots of the world’s largest airline will not accept sub Delta wages while team smisek feast at the detriment to employees and our passengers. In short, smisek needs to get serious about a fair and ratifiable contract and understand that paying industry-leading wages will produce industry-leading performance. The CAL and UAL MEC’s will not tire, or relent, or acquiesce to anything less than industry leading.



Lastly, the United MEC has authorized informational picketing at the nation’s White House this Monday. Eric Hunter and I fully support and encourage this effort to demonstrate our frustration with team smisek’s theft of $58 million dollars a month from our Pilots. Under the leadership of Captain Jay Heppner, the United Pilot group has lead the charge in an effort to seek release to self-help in order to achieve the fair and industry-leading contract that our pilots deserve.



The quest to achieve said contract is multi-faceted and active. I do realize the frustration associated with the lack of information and details in current com. Please understand that a 99% strike vote at the world’s largest airline, coincident with smisek‘s tripling his own pay and his continued addiction to concessions and outsourcing, should not go unnoticed by our government. The RLA is flawed and at the crux of our current disposition. Please exercise your First-Amendment Rights at our nation’s capital and show the solidarity (UAL/CAL) that is germane to our quest of parity. Your presence also reaffirms our resistance to the corporate greed and inequity demonstrated by an incompetent, yet well-compensated and arrogant smisek and his merry band of corporate raiders.



Fraternally,

Local Council 171 – July 29, 2012 Update

Lastly, the United MEC has authorized informational picketing at the nation’s White House this Monday. Eric Hunter and I fully support and encourage this effort to demonstrate our frustration with team smisek’s theft of $58 million dollars a month from our Pilots. Under the leadership of Captain Jay Heppner, the United Pilot group has lead the charge in an effort to seek release to self-help in order to achieve the fair and industry-leading contract that our pilots deserve.



The quest to achieve said contract is multi-faceted and active. I do realize the frustration associated with the lack of information and details in current com. Please understand that a 99% strike vote at the world’s largest airline, coincident with smisek‘s tripling his own pay and his continued addiction to concessions and outsourcing, should not go unnoticed by our government. The RLA is flawed and at the crux of our current disposition. Please exercise your First-Amendment Rights at our nation’s capital and show the solidarity (UAL/CAL) that is germane to our quest of parity. Your presence also reaffirms our resistance to the corporate greed and inequity demonstrated by an incompetent, yet well-compensated and arrogant smisek and his merry band of corporate raiders.



Fraternally,
HUH?
Please tell me it's next Monday, the 6th of Aug. Have not heard of this till now and since this blastmail came out yesterday, the "next" Monday would be today!

If it is today, this is a failure of ALPA (CAL & UAL) Comm..

Motch

HUH?
Please tell me it's next Monday, the 6th of Aug. Have not heard of this till now and since this blastmail came out yesterday, the "next" Monday would be today!

If it is today, this is a failure of ALPA (CAL & UAL) Comm..

Motch
Check PM for LEC Rep contact info......

The way I read it there is a huge disconnect here...............


I got a blastmail recently from CAL MEC telling us NOT to go to the white house to picket.

The blast mail said it was internet forum based and not authorized.

The communicaiton above, while from a CAL pilot rep does say it was authorized by the UAL MEC, I find it odd that:

A. CAL and UAL MEC's are not on the same page
B. A CAL rep would toot the horn of the UAL MEC
C. a joint SPSC event has not been publicized to the pilots

Check your email. The msg you got was to not attend picketing in front of Congress that was not sanctioned by the SPC. Today in front of the White House was a sanctioned UAL SPC event.

Check your email. The msg you got was to not attend picketing in front of Congress that was not sanctioned by the SPC. Today in front of the White House was a sanctioned UAL SPC event.

Wow!

I was off today.

I am a CAL pilot, and I would have gladly gone if I had known about it and had been invited.

I was off and would have went too....

Updated 5:24 p.m. ET
WASHINGTON -- As labor disputes roil the airlines, dozens of United Airlines pilots picketed today in front of the White House. The group protested against United for failing to resolve contract talks and for what the union characterizes as sending jobs overseas.
Pilots wearing their caps and white shirts with epaulets walked silently in a loop along Pennsylvania Avenue holding signs that said "Outsourcing is a bad idea" and "the Railway Labor Act is broken." While more than 60 pilots circled at noon, organizers expected 300 pilots to ultimately participate before it ended at 2 p.m.
PHOTO GALLERY: The fleet and hubs of United and Continental airlines (http://mediagallery.usatoday.com/United+Airlines+and+Continental+Airlines/A7653)
Pilots at the combined United and Continental nearly unanimously approved a strike July 17, a vote that came after two years of negotiations following the merger.
ARCHIVES: United pilots vote to authorize strike by big margin, but ... (http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/post/2012/07/united-pilots-strike-vote/805901/1) (July 18, 2012)
But under the Railway Labor Act, which also governs airlines, a strike can't occur until the National Mediation Board releases pilots from talks and there is a 30-day "cooling off" period. Pilots have asked three times to be released by the board, but the board has continued talks.
"We want a contract, not a strike," Halli Mulei, a first-officer based in Chicago who has flown for United for 16 years, said outside the White House. "United Airlines has put in basically a holding pattern."
Union representatives say 1,437 pilots furloughed during the last decade haven't been called back to work, which is described as a sticking point in contract talks.
The union's complaint about outsourcing centers on a daily Madrid-Washington flight that is part of United's route network but is actually operated with Aer Lingus aircraft and crew. That, the union says, means less work for United's domestic pilots.
ARCHIVES: United, Aer Lingus forge 'an unusual linkup' (http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/post/2009/01/united-aer-lingus-forge-an-unusual-linkup/61815736/1) (Jan. 2009)
ARCHIVES: United, Aer Lingus boost trans-Atlantic pact (http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/2009-01-23-united-aer-lingus_N.htm) (Jan. 2009)
In reaction to the protest, Megan McCarthy, a United spokeswoman, says: "We are focused on reaching a new agreement with our pilots and are currently in negotiations."
And, come this fall, the United Madrid-Washington route that's operated by Aer Lingus will no longer be a point of contention.
McCarthy tells USA TODAY that United is terminating its agreement with Aer Lingus for that route. The termination will take effect 90 days from Wednesday (Aug. 1), after United notified Aer Lingus last week, according to McCarthy.
United pilots have staged several protests in the last year over the pace of talks. In May 2011, about 150 pilots marched in downtown Chicago, where United has headquarters, to mark the second anniversary of the merger. That June, pilots gathered at the company's shareholder meeting. And more than 700 pilots demonstrated on Wall Street in September 2011.
Pilots at several larger airlines are angry that bankruptcies have eliminated pensions and reduced staffs. United isn't the only airline with labor disputes:
--US Airways is still negotiating contracts after merging with America West in 2005. The airline's flight attendants rejected a proposed contract in April. But chief executive Doug Parker said in a speech July 18 at the National Press Club that the labor talks would be resolved.
--American Airlines pilots reached a tentative contract agreement in June, and results of a ratification vote are expected Aug. 8. But American's union leaders for pilots, flight attendants and machinists are supporting a merger with US Airways.
--A wildcat strike cancelled dozens of Air Canada flights in March, before the Air Canada Pilots Association and the airline resumed negotiations on a contract that expired a year earlier.

Check PM for LEC Rep contact info......

SoCal..
I already have their contact info. What would you have me do?

Point is, there was a blurb in a Local Council Blastmail about a sanctioned ALPA Event and (it seems) not many pilots knew about this.

Failure of Comm?!

Motch

Newark blast mail?

SoCal..
I already have their contact info. What would you have me do?

Point is, there was a blurb in a Local Council Blastmail about a sanctioned ALPA Event and (it seems) not many pilots knew about this.

Failure of Comm?!

Motch
Failure....Agreed.

Have you sent Bagenski & Miller an email to ask as to why the "lack of information" prior to the event??? I have......<Crickets>.

Let me (us) know if you blessed with intel.

SC

Failure....Agreed.

Have you sent Bagenski & Miller an email to ask as to why the "lack of information" prior to the event??? I have......<Crickets>.

Let me (us) know if you blessed with intel.

SC

Those guys only publish what they are directed to publish. They do not have authorship and creative rights.

This was clearly a plan by the MEC "NOT" to publish the information. If they wanted it published, they would have had that big inflatable rat holding the money bags at the event, along with 1000 pilots, along with key note speakers, and probably even a guest appearance by Sully himself.

Those guys only publish what they are directed to publish. They do not have authorship and creative rights.

This was clearly a plan by the MEC "NOT" to publish the information. If they wanted it published, they would have had that big inflatable rat holding the money bags at the event, along with 1000 pilots, along with key note speakers, and probably even a guest appearance by Sully himself.
Lets see......We get the following "Joint SPSC Penning" last week (07-24-12):

Fellow Pilots,
You don’t need your union to tell you that frustration among our pilots is at an all-time high. The recent Strike Authorization Ballot, where 99 percent of our pilots voted in favor of authorizing the MECs to call a legal strike at the appropriate time, is testament to that frustration. This sent a clear message to management that our pilots have had enough.

While it may not be noticeable on the surface, this overwhelming support gives us leverage as we reach a critical stage in our negotiations for a Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement. We’ve come this far and waited this long to possibly see some real progress at the negotiating table. Now is not the time to change course or be distracted. Unfortunately, such a distraction has come to our attention, and it is our obligation to alert the pilot group of the ramifications it could produce.

As many of you already know, an invitation is circulating within the pilot group via various pilot forums and email chains to join a group of pilots in an informational picketing event in Washington, D.C., on Thursday. We must tell you that this picketing event is NOT sanctioned by ALPA. The event is not part of the MECs’ strategic plans and it could quite possibly be detrimental to the negotiating process.

While we respect the desired intentions of the organizers of Thursday’s event, we simply cannot condone or support this operation. The informational picketing event planned for Thursday in Washington could place our efforts at risk.

We fully understand these pilots’ frustrations and their desire to stir action before Congress adjourns for the summer recess. This planned picket, however, will not garner that action. If anything, it may produce opposite and potentially negative effects.

Picketing in uniform under a permit not obtained or sanctioned by the UAL and CAL MECs is not the way to demonstrate the unity supplied by last week’s historic joint strike vote, nor is it the way to vent your frustration with the slow progress of negotiations. The best way to support our negotiating efforts is to remain unified and not to act outside of our union’s plans at this critical time.

How or if United management will react to participants involved in an unsanctioned, non-ALPA event is undetermined, but we certainly don’t want any of our pilots putting themselves in a position where management could take negative actions.

We understand the frustration the long overdue JCBA is causing on the line. We all share that frustration. But we ask that you let your union leadership continue to represent you and bargain collectively on a unified basis in the best interests of all 12,000 pilots. We are strongest when we stand together. We harm our efforts and by definition do not act as a union when we act separately. As such, we ask that you do not put yourself at risk or put future negotiations in jeopardy by participating in any activity not sanctioned by ALPA.

United, we will not fail.

In unity,

Marty Miller
CAL MEC SPSC Chairman
Pieter M. Velzeboer
UAL MEC SPSC Chairman

BUT Wait!!!
The SAME SPSC Name above, Velzeboer, who could NOT condome the same event just days earlier magically appears to support the event as mentioned below?!?!

ALPA Fastread (07-31-12):
Nearly 125 United pilots took their message to the front steps of the White House during a nearly two-hour informational picketing event on Monday.
Braving heat and humidity, the pilots walked a continuous orbit carrying signs that read, “Release Labor Now: 17 Months’ Mediation Is Enough,” “Standing Up for Labor: Thank You, Mr. President,” “United Airlines: Addicted to Offshoring: Let’s Fly with United Pilots,” and “Help Us, President Obama: Labor Needs You.”

MEC chairman Capt. Jay Heppner, who joined the picket, and SPSC chairman Capt. Pieter Velzeboer wish to thank all the pilots who came out to help us express the United pilots’ frustrations with prolonged negotiations for a joint collective bargaining agreement and to communicate the pilots’ concerns about United’s sustained practice of offshoring our jobs.

To send out the Joint-Penned 'warning' last week, but then spin to support it less than a week later in person is 'confusing' to say the least. Foregoing a combine Pilot Group effort on such a "March" as the one mentioned above has to be nothing short of poor-form by MEC Leadership....That's shouldered on BOTH sides of the house.

The Beat Goes On......'Coordination' at it's best.....And we ask how come we don't have a JCBA by now?:eek:

Lets see......We get the following "Joint SPSC Penning" last week (07-24-12):

Fellow Pilots,
You don’t need your union to tell you that frustration among our pilots is at an all-time high. The recent Strike Authorization Ballot, where 99 percent of our pilots voted in favor of authorizing the MECs to call a legal strike at the appropriate time, is testament to that frustration. This sent a clear message to management that our pilots have had enough.

While it may not be noticeable on the surface, this overwhelming support gives us leverage as we reach a critical stage in our negotiations for a Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement. We’ve come this far and waited this long to possibly see some real progress at the negotiating table. Now is not the time to change course or be distracted. Unfortunately, such a distraction has come to our attention, and it is our obligation to alert the pilot group of the ramifications it could produce.

As many of you already know, an invitation is circulating within the pilot group via various pilot forums and email chains to join a group of pilots in an informational picketing event in Washington, D.C., on Thursday. We must tell you that this picketing event is NOT sanctioned by ALPA. The event is not part of the MECs’ strategic plans and it could quite possibly be detrimental to the negotiating process.

While we respect the desired intentions of the organizers of Thursday’s event, we simply cannot condone or support this operation. The informational picketing event planned for Thursday in Washington could place our efforts at risk.

We fully understand these pilots’ frustrations and their desire to stir action before Congress adjourns for the summer recess. This planned picket, however, will not garner that action. If anything, it may produce opposite and potentially negative effects.

Picketing in uniform under a permit not obtained or sanctioned by the UAL and CAL MECs is not the way to demonstrate the unity supplied by last week’s historic joint strike vote, nor is it the way to vent your frustration with the slow progress of negotiations. The best way to support our negotiating efforts is to remain unified and not to act outside of our union’s plans at this critical time.

How or if United management will react to participants involved in an unsanctioned, non-ALPA event is undetermined, but we certainly don’t want any of our pilots putting themselves in a position where management could take negative actions.

We understand the frustration the long overdue JCBA is causing on the line. We all share that frustration. But we ask that you let your union leadership continue to represent you and bargain collectively on a unified basis in the best interests of all 12,000 pilots. We are strongest when we stand together. We harm our efforts and by definition do not act as a union when we act separately. As such, we ask that you do not put yourself at risk or put future negotiations in jeopardy by participating in any activity not sanctioned by ALPA.

United, we will not fail.

In unity,

Marty Miller
CAL MEC SPSC Chairman
Pieter M. Velzeboer
UAL MEC SPSC Chairman

BUT Wait!!!
The SAME SPSC Name above, Velzeboer, who could NOT condome the same event just days earlier magically appears to support the event as mentioned below?!?!

ALPA Fastread (07-31-12):
Nearly 125 United pilots took their message to the front steps of the White House during a nearly two-hour informational picketing event on Monday.
Braving heat and humidity, the pilots walked a continuous orbit carrying signs that read, “Release Labor Now: 17 Months’ Mediation Is Enough,” “Standing Up for Labor: Thank You, Mr. President,” “United Airlines: Addicted to Offshoring: Let’s Fly with United Pilots,” and “Help Us, President Obama: Labor Needs You.”

MEC chairman Capt. Jay Heppner, who joined the picket, and SPSC chairman Capt. Pieter Velzeboer wish to thank all the pilots who came out to help us express the United pilots’ frustrations with prolonged negotiations for a joint collective bargaining agreement and to communicate the pilots’ concerns about United’s sustained practice of offshoring our jobs.

To send out the Joint-Penned 'warning' last week, but then spin to support it less than a week later in person is 'confusing' to say the least. Foregoing a combine Pilot Group effort on such a "March" as the one mentioned above has to be nothing short of poor-form by MEC Leadership....That's shouldered on BOTH sides of the house.

The Beat Goes On......'Coordination' at it's best.....And we ask how come we don't have a JCBA by now?:eek:



Could it be that Capt. Pieter Velzeboer has had enough of the same rhetoric and BS that we continue to see on a weekly basis? How many different ways can you spin the same load of crap?

Let's not jump to conclusions. Maybe it was a different Pieter Velzeboer.

HUH?
Please tell me it's next Monday, the 6th of Aug. Have not heard of this till now and since this blastmail came out yesterday, the "next" Monday would be today!

If it is today, this is a failure of ALPA (CAL & UAL) Comm..

Motch

The only thing that I read about this picket the e-mail saying not to go. Then I see an ALPA blastmail mentioning that the picket happened and it looks like it's 99% UAL who showed up. This event should have had a much higher turnout, (especially from the CAL side) but it seems as if it was sabotaged. ***?!?

Looks a lot like ALPA national and Moak told both sides to not picket and threatened termination at work. UAL side went ahead. Not much support from National??

Against Moak's do nothing policy?

My guess is that the one last week was not planned by either SPSC. The one yesterday was preplanned for permits and the like. It was probably considered necessary by the UAL guys but not the CAL guys. It is a shame that it couldn't have been joint but the MECs are still way apart on the direction each wants this to go. Not saying which side is at fault because they both have merit. The battle was lost the second the merger was announced and we didn't have a joint plan. Groundwork was laid during the previous merger talks but neither side could agree on tactics. Seems like both sides thought they would be screwed by the other.:confused:

My guess is that the one last week was not planned by either SPSC. The one yesterday was preplanned for permits and the like.
Really?!!?

And there was NO mention to that fact, just a week earlier (in "Joint" SPSC letter above), regarding the super-secret/already planned UAL sanctioned March that you infer???

WOW.....Keep reaching.

Bottom line.....A "coordinated effort" could have gone A LOT further by way of tangible support in visible number. Even some of the news clips comments covering the 'gathering' sited the "lack of expected numbers". Who knows, maybe they were going for the "clandescent approach" when Marching just mere steps from the White House lawn.

Really?!!?

And there was NO mention to that fact, just a week earlier (in "Joint" SPSC letter above), regarding the super-secret/already planned UAL sanctioned March that you infer???

WOW.....Keep reaching.
It was not reaching.

A splinter group of loose cannon UAL pilots originally (and independently) planned the White House demonstration despite being told specifically not to as it had not been coordinated or approved by anybody within the ALPA structure. One of the ringleaders claims he was told that if he went ahead he could face Article 8 charges from ALPA.

Being consistent, they went blazing ahead anyway and were recruiting pilots to march over on the UAL pilots forum. This is when the "warning" email went out to all UAL and CAL pilots. After some sense was knocked into them about marching in uniform in front of 1600 Penn they pulled the plug.

But....there was still a paid permit ($500) from the Park Service sitting there.

As one thing lead to another, an actual ALPA approved and coordinated "on message" demonstration was very quickly cobbled together that would permit the pilots to march in uniform without fear of repercussions from United or Art 8 charges from ALPA.

I don't know why the ball was dropped in coordinating between UAL and CAL ALPA, but the UAL pilots were only notified over the weekend that there was a demonstration on Monday. Yikes.

IMHO, if it was such a great idea the whole thing should have been delayed (even if it meant requiring a new permit) so pilots from both sides would have had much greater advance notice. It started as a knee jerk READY-FIRE-AIM operation and it ended as one.

IMHO, if it was such a great idea the whole thing should have been delayed (even if it meant requiring a new permit) so pilots from both sides would have had much greater advance notice.
The ONLY 'nugget' I found.

I think there will be "hell to pay" for this blunder.

Definitely a fantastic idea to go to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

Probably should avoid Wall Street and the stock holders meetings from now on.

It only cost 500 bones to picket at the Whtie House.


Man, that's easy............lets do it once a week. Spend another 600 on a press release.


Our "union" didn't want to do it. That much I knew, and that much was clear.

Evidently, the UAL MEC relunctantly agreed to bless the event, at the last minute.

THe lack of support from both sides, as well as from National makes us look weak.

I pay about 3000.00 a year to be an ALPA member, and all I get is a lousy magazine. How about some balls to the wall leadership. it's time for some risk taking. The NMB could care less if we picket every day. What's the lame-o excuse now for inaction?

I find it most interesting that a single rep, from the IAH council published the event. Was this to embarass his MEC? Was this to show the CAL pilots that something was going on despite no official ALPA publication? He worked within his constraints and still handled it professionally.

A bigger probem is this: the Two MEC's are clearly not on the same page. They clearly can't plan together, or execute "jointly." They are afraid to take risks, and ALPA National is lethargic, tired, and unattentive.

ALPA National needs to decide if it's going to be a mainline union or a regional union. Time to cut the nuts and tell us where it stands. Who's revenue stream do you really want? It can't support two different models both attacking the same revenue stream. There will be a winner and a loser. We'll either fly 20 RJ's a day to Chicago, or 5 mainline jets. What's it gonna be Capt. Moak?

I think there will be "hell to pay" for this blunder.

Definitely a fantastic idea to go to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

Probably should avoid Wall Street and the stock holders meetings from now on.

It only cost 500 bones to picket at the Whtie House.


Man, that's easy............lets do it once a week. Spend another 600 on a press release.


Our "union" didn't want to do it. That much I knew, and that much was clear.

Evidently, the UAL MEC relunctantly agreed to bless the event, at the last minute.

THe lack of support from both sides, as well as from National makes us look weak.

I pay about 3000.00 a year to be an ALPA member, and all I get is a lousy magazine. How about some balls to the wall leadership. it's time for some risk taking. The NMB could care less if we picket every day. What's the lame-o excuse now for inaction?

I find it most interesting that a single rep, from the IAH council published the event. Was this to embarass his MEC? Was this to show the CAL pilots that something was going on despite no official ALPA publication? He worked within his constraints and still handled it professionally.

A bigger probem is this: the Two MEC's are clearly not on the same page. They clearly can't plan together, or execute "jointly." They are afraid to take risks, and ALPA National is lethargic, tired, and unattentive.

ALPA National needs to decide if it's going to be a mainline union or a regional union. Time to cut the nuts and tell us where it stands. Who's revenue stream do you really want? It can't support two different models both attacking the same revenue stream. There will be a winner and a loser. We'll either fly 20 RJ's a day to Chicago, or 5 mainline jets. What's it gonna be Capt. Moak?


Moak is not going to/should not decide this for us. If we let alpa-n continue to chart our course for us we're doomed. Just like mgmt, they will continue to seek the best of both worlds to maintain status quo, consequences be dammed.

Moak is no different than Prater.

Both are weak and ineffectual.

Our MEC Chairman around ALPA must hold Moak's feet to the fire or force him to resign.

How is that DAL move going to oust ALPA?