Airline Pilot Forums

Question for the 737 drivers at L-CAL. I have noticed that on your 737- 8/900 cockpit displays, the EFIS uses the standard "six pack" instrumentation display. Why is this? It seems every other 737 next gen operator uses the standard PFD and ND displays like the 777.

Can they be switched to either mode by the flight crew or is this something CAL does for fleet commonality with the 737-500's?

SNA320

It is an FAA fleet common thing. It can't be switched by the flight crews, but once the -500's are finally retired, I understand that they can be switched to PFD/ ND by Boeing for a premium$.

Fleet commonality.... It was the "solution" to a single type/single fleet with 737-300/500.

Southwest went to PFD/ND tapes instead of "Half-A**ed Glass" on their NGs. They still have round-dial -300s and -500s.

The 500s are all suppose to be gone by next summer. Originally LCAL wasn't going to have them switched over to the PFD/ND because Boeing wanted to charge 40K. That's 40K per airplane!!!! ***! It's a pretty easy switch over IF they had installed the software already with it, but they don't do that. Anyhow, apparently with the 787 delays, it looks like, they are going to do the switchover. Thank God since the 737 is a piece of crap as it is, compared to the Airbus. 737NG is so antiquated and they need the PFD/ND to catch up a bit.

The 500s are all suppose to be gone by next summer. Originally LCAL wasn't going to have them switched over to the PFD/ND because Boeing wanted to charge 40K. That's 40K per airplane!!!! ***! It's a pretty easy switch over IF they had installed the software already with it, but they don't do that. Anyhow, apparently with the 787 delays, it looks like, they are going to do the switchover. Thank God since the 737 is a piece of crap as it is, compared to the Airbus. 737NG is so antiquated and they need the PFD/ND to catch up a bit.

$40K per airplane?! I'm totally in the wrong line of work!

We were about to flip the switch until the merger then it went on the back burner. It is NOT a requirement until the -500 are gone. Simply money ad negotiating with boeing.

Simply money ad negotiating with boeing.
I'll bet the 737 EFIS update is part of the non-cash settlement for the 787 fiasco if DAL's settlement is any indication. Both Boeing and UCH announced they reached a settlement, but the details have not been disclosed.

That EFIS set up is idiotic.

And they say UAs 757s are dumbed-down?

how come the feds would ok the 757 and 764 with their cockpit difference but not the 733/5 and NG :confused:

That EFIS set up is idiotic.

And they say UAs 757s are dumbed-down?

I'm not sure I understand. The 757 instruments are identical to the 737-500. I'll take the NG instruments any day.

how come the feds would ok the 757 and 764 with their cockpit difference but not the 733/5 and NG :confused:

Yea, I was surprised too. I'd fly the 757 for a year then hop into the 767-400 to fly one trip. Can't believe it's legal. It's not safe.

how come the feds would ok the 757 and 764 with their cockpit difference but not the 733/5 and NG :confused:

Didn't Alaska have it that way with their -400s and the NGs? I know the -200 was a separate category, but I thought the -400 and NG pilots were interchangeable.

Yea, I was surprised too. I'd fly the 757 for a year then hop into the 767-400 to fly one trip. Can't believe it's legal. It's not safe.
That's why every MV/LOE we have to touch both.....The Fed's get away with calling that safe and signing off in allowing the none-split fleet.

Is the B737 MV/LOEs allowed to go all NG without having to see the NG and -500 every time to the School House??

That's why every MV/LOE we have to touch both.....The Fed's get away with calling that safe and signing off in allowing the none-split fleet.

Is the B737 MV/LOEs allowed to go all NG without having to see the NG and -500 every time to the School House??

Nah. Only the jerks with alot of juniority have to fly the 500 stimulator.:D The rest get to skate through on the 800 sim.;)

I'm not sure I understand. The 757 instruments are identical to the 737-500. I'll take the NG instruments any day.

Are you f-ing serious?!?! This NG package is the WORST EFIS I've ever seen! I thought only SWA had it, and now I hear even they don't use it anymore. I prefer the -500 half-a$$ glass over this crap. At least it has a speed tape, for God's sake.

I actually had a training captain (can't remember what you guys call it - the guy who gave us our check at the end of training) tell me this was "the most advanced cockpit other than the 787". He IMMEDIATELY lost any and all credibility he might have had when he uttered those words.

I still can't imagine anyone with a brain buying new airplanes and then turning the EFIS into steam gauges. I for one can't wait to get out of this little POS.

JMHO

Are you f-ing serious?!?! This NG package is the WORST EFIS I've ever seen! I thought only SWA had it, and now I hear even they don't use it anymore. I prefer the -500 half-a$$ glass over this crap. At least it has a speed tape, for God's sake.

I actually had a training captain (can't remember what you guys call it - the guy who gave us our check at the end of training) tell me this was "the most advanced cockpit other than the 787". He IMMEDIATELY lost any and all credibility he might have had when he uttered those words.

I still can't imagine anyone with a brain buying new airplanes and then turning the EFIS into steam gauges. I for one can't wait to get out of this little POS.

JMHO


Holding out for the Q400 or the E145?

That's why every MV/LOE we have to touch both.....The Fed's get away with calling that safe and signing off in allowing the none-split fleet.

Is the B737 MV/LOEs allowed to go all NG without having to see the NG and -500 every time to the School House??

B737 MV/LOE can be done solely in the NG sim. Not required to touch the -500 sim at all.

Holding out for the Q400 or the E145?

ROFLMAO!!!
No thanks, but I will take ANYTHING else on the property.

You can have the guppy.

ROFLMAO!!!
No thanks, but I will take ANYTHING else on the property.

You can have the guppy.

Obviously a L-UAL returning furloughee calling it a "guppy". Seems as though the only ones in the industry that call it that are the UAL guys. You guys use that term like it's Kleenex, Coke, or Xerox. It's not exactly the industry name for it, just y'all's, just so you know. Welcome back to flying, btw, now quit griping about the avionics.

Obviously a L-UAL returning furloughee calling it a "guppy". Seems as though the only ones in the industry that call it that are the UAL guys. You guys use that term like it's Kleenex, Coke, or Xerox. It's not exactly the industry name for it, just y'all's, just so you know. Welcome back to flying, btw, now quit griping about the avionics.

I've heard you boys and girls get your panties in wad over the guppy thing.

Probably oughta get used to it.

Didn't Alaska have it that way with their -400s and the NGs? I know the -200 was a separate category, but I thought the -400 and NG pilots were interchangeable.

We fly both the -400's and NG's and we don't have simulated round dial glass in the NG's. The FAA doesn't seem to care. Though the EFIS on our -400's do have speed tapes in addition to the steam gauge airspeed indicator. Maybe that has something to do with it. I remember doing OE years ago and commenting about the round dial airspeed indicator. The check airmen asked me why I was even looking at it! I don't know why UCAL feels the need to dumb down the PFD/ND.

The reason why UAL pilots called it a "guppy" is because their airline probably has the longest us history of flying them. The jt8d-7 engine models (-200 Luftansa got the -100s) flew for UAL in 1971 (or close to that) - into the 90s.

Until Tilton UAL was the leader in many areas.

So you don't forget 747 = whale 737 = guppy

Or the CAL POI/FAA.

Ps as long as the autopilot will fly the fmc course and I have a picture of the airport who cares about the rest.

Ps as long as the autopilot will fly the fmc course and I have a picture of the airport who cares about the rest.

COMFORT!!! Flying across the US, the Airbus (Micro or mini) is much more tolerable....

For the uniformed each airline's POI has leeway in how they interpret and apply the FARs to their assigned airline. Additionally they respond to the airlines requested methodology in light of the FARs. So I would bet it was the CAL management that requested the displays and the POI approved it.

Agreed on the airbus comfort. Having flown both 737 and bus I would bid the bus over the guppy anytime. Fifi is a lady!

I've heard you boys and girls get your panties in wad over the guppy thing.

Probably oughta get used to it.

I really am trying to get them out, but they are bunched-up way up in there. :eek: Sorry for the thread drift, "guppy" just irks me a bit.

It's sort of like when a person constantly mispronounces a word, and all the people behind his back are laughing at him about it. Same thing.

No worries, let's just focus on a good contract. :)

Our -300s were round dial with no speed tape, and were flown alongside the -500s when the NG's came online in the mid 90's necessitating the 6 pack setup we currently enjoy. The plan was to reconfigure to the ND display upon parking the last -300 a couple years ago but I guess other other things have gotten in the way. If we hafta start using the lower DU,where will we put the PDC and ATIS??? I kid, I kid. Can't wait to get an airspeed indicator that doesn't require me to hunch over the yoke to see anything smaller than a 30 knot spread!

Agreed on the airbus comfort. Having flown both 737 and bus I would bid the bus over the guppy anytime. Fifi is a lady!


I would say more like a transvestite. You know, a lot of work needed with some cheap parts here and there.

The term now is "transgendered" so please show some sensitivity. Where else can a pilot enjoy being told to "retard" multiple times by a guy with a French accent.

The term now is "transgendered" so please show some sensitivity. Where else can a pilot enjoy being told to "retard" multiple times by a guy with a French accent.


I dont have to be sensitive anymore. The 80's are long over.

I really am trying to get them out, but they are bunched-up way up in there. :eek: Sorry for the thread drift, "guppy" just irks me a bit.

It's sort of like when a person constantly mispronounces a word, and all the people behind his back are laughing at him about it. Same thing.

No worries, let's just focus on a good contract. :)

I swear that when I was flying 73's at AWA they called them guppies over there. Maybe it was fluff or speed bump. Any jet that has hub caps and a "flight deck" that makes a Cessna 182 look roomy and sound quiet deserves a lame nick name. ;)

Cheers on the good contract!!

Hopefully our new Scope will allow us to insource and proudly call them the "Guppy Killer - Killers". Maybe even get a bag sticker.

I like an analog display. I find it easier to read at a glance than a tape. It does seem a little redneck, but I still prefer it.

I like an analog display. I find it easier to read at a glance than a tape. It does seem a little redneck, but I still prefer it.

I used to be the same way. After flying a pure PFD in the 777 then the 320 for a decade it was tough for me at first to reacquire a scan for the 756.

I used to be the same way. After flying a pure PFD in the 777 then the 320 for a decade it was tough for me at first to reacquire a scan for the 756.


Was on the 756 at CAL for about 7 years. We have both the regular round dial and a tape airspeed indicator built into the adi. I set the bugs on the round dial for each t/o and landing like a good FO, but never once looked at it. You could have removed the instrument and I probably would not have noticed.

The term guppy is used by other than the pilots of UAL. In fact, it's even used as a question in the game Trivial Pursuit. It's not necessarily a derisive term, but since the 737 is such an uncomfortable and unremarkable plane the term "guppy" does have some connotation.

As far as the "retard" callout, if you've turned off the A/T you'll never hear it.

Having flown both, I hope it takes uCAL a LONG time to park the bus fleet. I'll spend the rest of my lousy career bidding away from the 737.

I swear that when I was flying 73's at AWA they called them guppies over there. Maybe it was fluff or speed bump. Any jet that has hub caps and a "flight deck" that makes a Cessna 182 look roomy and sound quiet deserves a lame nick name. ;)

Cheers on the good contract!!


You're gonna look real funny in a "fluff".:eek:

The term guppy is used by other than the pilots of UAL. In fact, it's even used as a question in the game Trivial Pursuit. It's not necessarily a derisive term, but since the 737 is such an uncomfortable and unremarkable plane the term "guppy" does have some connotation.

As far as the "retard" callout, if you've turned off the A/T you'll never hear it.

Having flown both, I hope it takes uCAL a LONG time to park the bus fleet. I'll spend the rest of my lousy career bidding away from the 737.

Not true. You will hear the RETARD call on the A320 with autothrottles off if you are still carrying power below the 27' where the call is made

I really am trying to get them out, but they are bunched-up way up in there. :eek: Sorry for the thread drift, "guppy" just irks me a bit.

It's sort of like when a person constantly mispronounces a word, and all the people behind his back are laughing at him about it. Same thing.

No worries, let's just focus on a good contract. :)

It's certainly not an insult. Guys aren't using the term for any other reason than that we've been calling it the Guppy since... well.... almost the beginning of the jet age. We call the A320 "FiFi" if it makes you feel any better.

I will say this, however. I was rather surprised to see 2 of our pilots (1 CAL and 1 UAL) at the order announcement raving about how great the 737-900ER and 737-9MAX are going to be. Make no mistake about it, the only "win" on that order was for the beancounters. In the back, the A320 kicks the 737's butt. The extra width to the seats is a BIG DEAL in passenger comfort. I can't sit normally in a 737 seat if I've got someone next to me. The 757 is the same way. Obviously the seat PITCH and entertainment is entirely up to the airline. The 757 may be cramped in the back, but in the front it's a dream. TONS of room. I still can't believe how bad the 737 cockpit is from a pilot comfort standpoint. Having flown all three, I can objectively say the 737 may be more efficient and reliable than the A320 offerings and the older 757, but from the "front office" perspective, the 737 is a HUGE downgrade.

Most importantly, I agree wholeheartedly about the contract :)