Airline Pilot Forums

Just got this:

Unsubstantiated rumor time: Is JetBlue Airways the No. 1 target of American Airlines? | Airline Biz Blog (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&q=http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2012/08/unsubstantiated-rumor-time-is-jetblue-airways-the-no-1-target-of-american-airlines.html/&ct=ga&cad=CAEQAhgAIAAoATABOAFAqoD1gAVIAVAAWABiBWVuLVVT&cd=2qI58IxWlhU&usg=AFQjCNE_fBlIwTYhKhVkVIxtMiS4xdOKQQ)

Discuss please....particularly, what will happen to those of us in the pool?

American Airlines WANTS to purchase JB. I WANT to have a 3-way with the two prettiest girls at the party. But 60% of the time I only get to have that 3-way 75% of the time.

Get it?

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/24430032.jpg

Why post a thread title that is designed to convey false information. Is there a point to not being honest?

YAWN. Back to regular scheduled programming.

Discuss please....particularly, what will happen to those of us in the pool?

When an airline buys another, after the money changes hands there is one thing that always happens.....

A complete and accurate transfer of the records of those pilots in the pool. If it happens, I'm sure you'll be good to go. :D

When an airline buys another, after the money changes hands there is one thing that always happens.....

A complete and accurate transfer of the records of those pilots in the pool. If it happens, I'm sure you'll be good to go. :D

yes just ask the guys that were in the North West pool. wait a second

American Airlines WANTS to purchase JB. I WANT to have a 3-way with the two prettiest girls at the party. But 60% of the time I only get to have that 3-way 75% of the time.

Get it?

For the right price, either are easily achievable. What's JB trading at right now?

If this merger were to happen, you can kiss being in the pool goodbye. American has well over a thousand furloughs that would be offered a job first, past history shows pools are commonly flushed, and the resulting airline would most likely shrink - resulting in less need for newhires or recalls.

American Airlines WANTS to purchase JB. I WANT to have a 3-way with the two prettiest girls at the party. But 60% of the time I only get to have that 3-way 75% of the time.

Get it?


Fook Mi and Fook Yu?:D

Austin Power and japanese twins - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vj1SyWntdo4)

You are a sexy beast!

For the right price, either are easily achievable. What's JB trading at right now?

Around $5/share now, hasnt moved out of the $4-6 range in years

JetBlue Airways Corporation Stock Chart | JBLU Interactive Chart - Yahoo! Finance (http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=JBLU+Interactive#symbol=jblu;range=5y;co mpare=;indicator=volume;charttype=area;crosshair=o n;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=undefined;)

Somebody clue me in on how a bankrupt airline can buy another airline...

Somebody clue me in on how a bankrupt airline can buy another airline...

There is a sucker born every minute, and they are the ones who provide financing for BK airlines

Somebody clue me in on how a bankrupt airline can buy another airline...

The jist of it would be that AA would acquire JB POST-bankruptcy.

JBers' who think they will be immune from acquisition or merger forever are fooling only themselves. Not saying it would be AA, but sooner or later, JB is going to hop into the sack with someone. Even SWA might take a run at you to become a MAJOR player in NY overnight.

Nothing is off the table, my friends.

JBers' who think they will be immune from acquisition or merger forever are fooling only themselves. Not saying it would be AA, but sooner or later, JB is going to hop into the sack with someone. Even SWA might take a run at you to become a MAJOR player in NY overnight.

Nothing is off the table, my friends.

Agreed, but we have many here who believe our CEO has the power to protect them from being bought when in fact he has no control over the matter.

For the right price, either are easily achievable. What's JB trading at right now?

Good one Mr. Internet Airline CEO.

Agreed, but we have many here who believe our CEO has the power to protect them from being bought when in fact he has no control over the matter.

I don't believe much of anything. But, why has no one bought us yet? Been hearing this same stuff for years.

Ah, who needs a union right? I mean what could possibly go wrong with a direct relationship where one feels so empowered?

I don't believe much of anything. But, why has no one bought us yet? ............

......because you're not ripe yet. ;)

Blueberries must be harvested at the opportune time for their sweetness to be maximized and not causing excessive heartburn. You're almost there though, so be patient. :D

I don't believe much of anything. But, why has no one bought us yet? Been hearing this same stuff for years.

The price hasnt been right, yet. Been lots of fuss over the stock price and ROIC during the past 6-8months. If the ELT can't get the stock moving then the BOD might be more willing to accept a lower price.

The 5yr chart (http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=JBLU+Interactive#symbol=jblu;range=5y;co mpare=;indicator=volume;charttype=area;crosshair=o n;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=undefined;) isnt breathtaking

My bud as a new hire at jb in 2001 had a flight with Dave in 2003 who told him to double down on the stock when able as it was soon going to be a $300 stock!

......because you're not ripe yet. ;)

Blueberries must be harvested at the opportune time for their sweetness to be maximized and not causing excessive heartburn. You're almost there though, so be patient. :D

Where American is concerned you seriously need to worry more about your own job, rather than the fate of the Jet Blue pilots.

Where American is concerned you seriously need to worry more about your own job, rather than the fate of the Jet Blue pilots.

A bit hypersensitive aren't we ?

As stated before old chap, you'll be facing the inevitable inevitably. Emotional quips on this web board won't change that. As for my job, yes, I'll worry about that so you don't have to. ;)

"Jetblue Prefers to Play the Field"

JetBlue Prefers to Play the Field - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390443545504577567351255387854.html)

Just got this:

Unsubstantiated rumor time: Is JetBlue Airways the No. 1 target of American Airlines? | Airline Biz Blog (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&q=http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2012/08/unsubstantiated-rumor-time-is-jetblue-airways-the-no-1-target-of-american-airlines.html/&ct=ga&cad=CAEQAhgAIAAoATABOAFAqoD1gAVIAVAAWABiBWVuLVVT&cd=2qI58IxWlhU&usg=AFQjCNE_fBlIwTYhKhVkVIxtMiS4xdOKQQ)

Discuss please....particularly, what will happen to those of us in the pool?

If JB and AA merge, or we're bought by AA, or we buy AA, being in the "pool" will be the least of your worries. I'd be more concerned about being hired at DAL, UAL, FEDEX, USAIR, SWA or where ever. Being at the bottom of the pilot seniority list during an AA merger hasn't proved lucrative for anyone near the bottom in the past.

If wall street hasn't priced it in them it's not happening. Give it up

I continue to be amazed as to how many pilots put stock in what analysts, CEOs, and Wall St say about upcoming deals.

Here, you can take this to the bank: If Jetblue's CEO is in on the deal and not allowed to talk about it, HE WILL CONTINUE DENYING IT RIGHT UP UNTIL THE DAY THE MERGER IS ANNOUNCED. That includes memos to his own employees.

Same exact deal with analysts and Wall St. You guys have absolutely no idea how little they are allowed to talk about upcoming deals. Otherwise they could manipulate the stock market however they see fit!

I do believe a B6 buyout will happen. I also believe it will be a 3-way with USAirways. JMO.

73

I continue to be amazed as to how many pilots put stock in what analysts, CEOs, and Wall St say about upcoming deals.

Here, you can take this to the bank: If Jetblue's CEO is in on the deal and not allowed to talk about it, HE WILL CONTINUE DENYING IT RIGHT UP UNTIL THE DAY THE MERGER IS ANNOUNCED. That includes memos to his own employees.

Same exact deal with analysts and Wall St. You guys have absolutely no idea how little they are allowed to talk about upcoming deals. Otherwise they could manipulate the stock market however they see fit!

I do believe a B6 buyout will happen. I also believe it will be a 3-way with USAirways. JMO.

73

aa73 wins again! Good post

But with the direct relationship Dave wouldn't lie to us.

I continue to be amazed as to how many pilots put stock in what analysts, CEOs, and Wall St say about upcoming deals.

Here, you can take this to the bank: If Jetblue's CEO is in on the deal and not allowed to talk about it, HE WILL CONTINUE DENYING IT RIGHT UP UNTIL THE DAY THE MERGER IS ANNOUNCED. That includes memos to his own employees.

Same exact deal with analysts and Wall St. You guys have absolutely no idea how little they are allowed to talk about upcoming deals. Otherwise they could manipulate the stock market however they see fit!

I do believe a B6 buyout will happen. I also believe it will be a 3-way with USAirways. JMO.

73

Hello? American is in bankruptcy. They can't just buy or merge without the creditors or the judge. It crack me up how pilots just make their own rules.

I agree that CEOs don't talk about mergers though. I wonder if Parker wants to merge with American?

Helloo? really? yea, none of this stuff is planned in advance... I wonder how it was that NWA and DAL declared BK in the same breath... totally not planned.

Hello? American is in bankruptcy. They can't just buy or merge without the creditors or the judge. It crack me up how pilots just make their own rules.

And obviously, the creditors would NEVER let AA buy JB or merge with US in BK, right? NEVER. I mean, anything that would give the UCC a good return on their $$$ would immediately get squashed. :rolleyes:

"Making up my own rules?" You been living under a rock the last year?

Make no mistake - these kinds of deals are planned WELL in advance and kept under tight wraps for a good reason.

And obviously, the creditors would NEVER let AA buy JB or merge with US in BK, right? NEVER. I mean, anything that would give the UCC a good return on their $$$ would immediately get squashed. :rolleyes:

"Making up my own rules?" You been living under a rock the last year?

Make no mistake - these kinds of deals are planned WELL in advance and kept under tight wraps for a good reason.

Calm down pops. You're getting so excited you might actually taxi faster than a brisk walk.

I was talking about your conspiracy theory where Barger is lying to us to not affect the stock price. If this deal were to happen, it would become public first because American is in bankruptcy. Do you understand this?

Horton is trying to hold on to his anointed position (as well as his ego). I'm sure he talked to Barger, but all he heard was, "Hey, I want your job, how much will it cost me to pay you off?"

Horton is desperate and I understand this. Don't get me wrong, I want this to happen, but it won't. There are no secret meeting with aliens in area 51. YOU ARE IN BANKRUPTCY. Anything Horton wants to do he has to sell it to the UCC. These guys can talk secretly and lie to us all they want.

Personally, I want to see this. I want to see you junior to a 35 year old. They took a risk at a startup and they will be rewarded.

Oh isnt that cute

Calm down pops. You're getting so excited you might actually taxi faster than a brisk walk.

I was talking about your conspiracy theory where Barger is lying to us to not affect the stock price. If this deal were to happen, it would become public first because American is in bankruptcy. Do you understand this?

Horton is trying to hold on to his anointed position (as well as his ego). I'm sure he talked to Barger, but all he heard was, "Hey, I want your job, how much will it cost me to pay you off?"

Horton is desperate and I understand this. Don't get me wrong, I want this to happen, but it won't. There are no secret meeting with aliens in area 51. YOU ARE IN BANKRUPTCY. Anything Horton wants to do he has to sell it to the UCC. These guys can talk secretly and lie to us all they want.


Ummmmmm.....no he doesn't.

Ummmmmm.....no he doesn't.


Oh, you got me. You're right. If Horton is on his porcelain thrown tomorrow morning and he want to buy jetBlue, he'll squeeze the last one out and get er done by noon. I don't know what I was thinking. Thanks for enlightening me.

I continue to be amazed as to how many pilots put stock in what analysts, CEOs, and Wall St say about upcoming deals.

Here, you can take this to the bank: If Jetblue's CEO is in on the deal and not allowed to talk about it, HE WILL CONTINUE DENYING IT RIGHT UP UNTIL THE DAY THE MERGER IS ANNOUNCED. That includes memos to his own employees.

Same exact deal with analysts and Wall St. You guys have absolutely no idea how little they are allowed to talk about upcoming deals. Otherwise they could manipulate the stock market however they see fit!

I do believe a B6 buyout will happen. I also believe it will be a 3-way with USAirways. JMO.

73
Normally I love three ways but this one sounds more like a royal screwing!! I hope JB gets bought/merged but not with the two most toxic pilot groups out there. As weak as we are without reprentation and/or a CBA this one could leave perminant scars.

Normally I love three ways but this one sounds more like a royal screwing!! I hope JB gets bought/merged but not with the two most toxic pilot groups out there. As weak as we are without reprentation and/or a CBA this one could leave perminant scars.

It would be so ugly with so many different labor groups that are all equally ****ed off (well, some more than others) that it might work out. Nobody would know who to be mad at. This would actually be a 4-way merger (AA, US, HP, B6)

Oh, you got me. You're right. If Horton is on his porcelain thrown tomorrow morning and he want to buy jetBlue, he'll squeeze the last one out and get er done by noon. I don't know what I was thinking. Thanks for enlightening me.

I can only snicker. You seem quite defensive and agitated that anyone would copeth a feel on Jet Blue, even going so far as tossing in insults to those you disagree with. Any possibility of AA groping Blue would occur after Chapter 11 exit. :cool:

I don't believe much of anything. But, why has no one bought us yet? Been hearing this same stuff for years.


Lufthansa..........Hello!

Think the rest of B6 isn't for sale?


T

Oh, you got me. You're right. If Horton is on his porcelain thrown tomorrow morning and he want to buy jetBlue, he'll squeeze the last one out and get er done by noon. I don't know what I was thinking. Thanks for enlightening me.

I never said anything about JB being purchased. I merely pointed out your inaccuracies WRT Horton having to do everything through UCC. It's simply not true. He could have the BK judge reject the labor groups contracts, impose concessions, & emerge as a stand alone carrier. Then he could work out a merger with JB via stock exchange. But I guess you already knew that. :rolleyes:

I never said anything about JB being purchased. I merely pointed out your inaccuracies WRT Horton having to do everything through UCC. It's simply not true. He could have the BK judge reject the labor groups contracts, impose concessions, & emerge as a stand alone carrier. Then he could work out a merger with JB via stock exchange. None of that would require UCC. But I guess you already knew that. :rolleyes:

I guess in your world he doesn't have to submit a plan to the UCC. That's a nice world.

I guess in your world he doesn't have to submit a plan to the UCC. That's a nice world.

No, AMR certainly would have to do so. After reading my posts a few times I realized while reading UCC I was thinking LCC. However, a post BK JB aquisition would still not require the approval of the UCC.

So many pilots on this forum are nothing more than "crashpad CEO's." For anyone to speak with the utmost confidence that JetBlue will be bought, merged, sold, or stay a stand alone carrier is total bull crap.

Might a Union help as an insurance policy? Possible so.

But why in the HELL would you want to vote in ALPA? Can't there be a creative plan to build a unique, healthy, in-house union? Maybe a few years ago wasn't the time for a JBPA, but times have changed.

I refuse to vote for a union that spends money subsidizing the regional carrier unions and comes with lots of baggage. B6 has grown to a significant larger size that if everyone started paying 2% of their wages, it would amount to millions rather quickly.

Oh isnt that cute

I thought the same thing.

Oh yes....everyone who "takes a chance" gets rewarded in this industry. :D

Totally clueless.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/24533865.jpg

You b6 dudes are so self righteous it's sickening. You are all such big airline pilots you never needed a union because you are all so special. I'm not saying ALPA is the answer, but you better get yourselves represented by something union like, or you will be hurting when merger talks get serious. Or do you guys still think a merger will never happen to you because, oh, that's right, you are all special? Good luck.

Wow, just read through some posts.---The post from the blue guys are easy to spot here. The blue guys seem a bit defensive.

Wow, just read through some posts.---The post from the blue guys are easy to spot here. The blue guys seem a bit defensive.

Anyone that is getting bought/merged/purchased by/intergrated with AA, should be VERY defensive. At least anyone with any knowledge of airline history.

No, AMR certainly would have to do so. After reading my posts a few times I realized while reading UCC I was thinking LCC. However, a post BK JB aquisition would still not require the approval of the UCC.


Haha, that's actually kinda funny. I don't know why we always abbreviate everything. Unsecured Credit Committee. I was getting all heated up about Horton. I'm not a fan of what he stands for and the thought of him just coming in and kicking out Barger got me a little defensive.

I thought the same thing.

Oh yes....everyone who "takes a chance" gets rewarded in this industry. :D

I'm Totally clueless.


Please enlighten me. Tell me all about the McCaskill-Bond. Tell the US Air east guys too. oh yeah, and Frontier. It's not the 80s anymore big shot.

Talk to any 2001 hire at jetBlue and he'll personally tell you how he took a chance and it paid off. I didn't make an absolute statement like you implied with your condescending remark.

Totally clueless.

Please enlighten me. Tell me all about the McCaskill-Bond. Tell the US Air east guys too. oh yeah, and Frontier. It's not the 80s anymore big shot.

Totally clueless.

Timely post from Rhino:

McCaskill-Bond deals with a process that results in an integration of work forces. That process is considered "fair and equitable" IF the integration results from either negotiations, through mediation, or by binding arbitration. McCaskill-Bond directs that the companies involved will follow the Alleghaney-Mohawk method...IF there is to be an integration of work forces.

Under Alleghaney-Mohawk, non-unionized work forces can either have a committee or management negotiate on their behalf. Our company, through the 5-docs, the PVC charter and the committee guidelines specifically state that pilots will only fill an advisory role during a transactional event, to include SLI negotiations. The company is following McCaskill-Bond/Alleghaney-Mohawk, and we are therefore covered under McCaskill-Bond.

The key is whether our ELT will make a deal with a company that does NOT require an SLI for the pilots-- there are many scenarios that our PEAs allow, (as in do NOT specifically prohibit) the company to fragment, end up as an independent carrier like Republic, or where we specifically give away our SLI to allow ourselves to be furloughed, simply fired/let go, our contracts expiring, or just let go a year after the merger. Theses are not scare tactics, but real-world, legal loopholes that exist in our PEAs, which do NOT exist in most major airline CBAs. As the DC lawyers stated, we must really trust that our ELT will do the right thing for us...to date, they have proven they will not given how they have manipulated the DR, allowed our options to expire, re-worded peer set, re-worked the committee process, or simply ignored our pilot inputs.

All of these are legal under McCaskill-Bond and all are centered around our poorly written PEAs, our non-unionized status, and the fact that our ELT has options to make a transactional event WITHOUT employee group integration.

AirTran's in-house contract did NOT specifically state that pilots were part of the operations AND that if the operations were sold, that pilots would have to be integrated as part of the deal-- that is why the one-way offer from the SWA CEO seemed harsh and unfair, but was perfectly legal. AirTran's acquisition and their employee groups did NOT fall under McCaskill-Bond-- we are even more screwed because we are NOT unionized and have agreed to let our ELT do the negotiations for us! IF we get to be integrated, any integration result will qualify as "fair" when our ELT agrees and the opposing pilot union votes "yes".

We fly aircraft for a living and are considered to be rather intelligent and responsible people relative to the average Joe-- how in the he!! we allowed ourselves to get to this position is absolutely astonishing! We have one more chance to fix it-- do NOT fvck it up!

So many pilots on this forum are nothing more than "crashpad CEO's." For anyone to speak with the utmost confidence that JetBlue will be bought, merged, sold, or stay a stand alone carrier is total bull crap.

Might a Union help as an insurance policy? Possible so.

But why in the HELL would you want to vote in ALPA? Can't there be a creative plan to build a unique, healthy, in-house union? Maybe a few years ago wasn't the time for a JBPA, but times have changed.
I refuse to vote for a union that spends money subsidizing the regional carrier unions and comes with lots of baggage. B6 has grown to a significant larger size that if everyone started paying 2% of their wages, it would amount to millions rather quickly.

We did try...and we failed. It takes thousands, upon thousands of dollars to kick start an in house union, not to mention find the individuals willing to do the legwork, but their isn't enough. We already have strike two against us in regards to attempts to unionize.

We did try...and we failed. It takes thousands, upon thousands of dollars to kick start an in house union, not to mention find the individuals willing to do the legwork, but their isn't enough. We already have strike two against us in regards to attempts to unionize.

So because it failed once, you just give up and succomb to ALPA?

"If" the average GROSS salary at B6 was 100K, after 1 year an inhouse at 2% would have received 4.6 MILLION dollars......in just one year! Not to mention what an assement fee might bring. If each pilot pitched in $100 dollars that would be 230,000 or a 1/4 Million, just to kick start it.

I don't know what the average is, might be higher, might be lower. However, the total income for an inhouse union budget WOULD be in the Millions for sure.

Haha, that's actually kinda funny. I don't know why we always abbreviate everything. Unsecured Credit Committee. I was getting all heated up about Horton. I'm not a fan of what he stands for and the thought of him just coming in and kicking out Barger got me a little defensive.

Yeah sorry. No worries. I went back and read a few times & realized we weren't completely on the same page. LCC not the same as UCC. :D

So because it failed once, you just give up and succomb to ALPA?

"If" the average GROSS salary at B6 was 100K, after 1 year an inhouse at 2% would have received 4.6 MILLION dollars......in just one year! Not to mention what an assement fee might bring. If each pilot pitched in $100 dollars that would be 230,000 or a 1/4 Million, just to kick start it.

I don't know what the average is, might be higher, might be lower. However, the total income for an inhouse union budget WOULD be in the Millions for sure.

What about guys out on sick leave? Inactive pilot's? Those who don't want a union? Those who don't want an in house union?

Please enlighten me. Tell me all about the McCaskill-Bond. Tell the US Air east guys too. oh yeah, and Frontier. It's not the 80s anymore big shot.

Talk to any 2001 hire at jetBlue and he'll personally tell you how he took a chance and it paid off. I didn't make an absolute statement like you implied with your condescending remark.

Totally clueless.

"Calm down pops"

"Personally, I want to see this. I want to see you junior to a 35 year old. They took a risk at a startup and they will be rewarded."


These are some of your recent quotes.

Please check the "tool of the day" thread for your nomination!

If American buys JetBlue, they will show up with staplers and offering DOH. Without a union, who will fight for something other than this?

JetBlue is a good outfit. They will be better off avoiding AA.

Ask any TWA guy...

This information I have on JBPA came from one of my instructors at OSC. Those were his words, and he was one of the individuals working that gig. Unfortunately, not to many people are willing to fork over the cash...that is truth.

This information I have on JBPA came from one of my instructors at OSC. Those were his words, and he was one of the individuals working that gig. Unfortunately, not to many people are willing to fork over the cash...that is truth.

Even without an assessment, a JBPA could raise millions just from 2% dues over a short period of time.

With that kind of income, money's not a problem. What the problem is, that we don't have enough pilots with initiative and vision to find creative ways to form a healthy in-house union. That's the problem. And frankly, this pro-union crowd (aka ALPA organizing committee) is composed of many pilots who have imposed self inflicted hardships on their own life which has skewed their outlook on JB into a dark abyss of negativity. Such as: guys who by choice, have bid 320 CA (100%), succomb to reserve, and choose to do a 2 leg commute, only to complain of "no free time" when in reality, it's their own choosing. And because of this, they are fueled to vote in ALPA. Ah, no thanks, big turnoff, no vote from me if your going to be running the show. This type of story is a dime a dozen with the ALPA organizer crowd. Whether it's no free time from their own bid selection and choice commute, or no money due to poor financial choices, or a nasty divorce, it's a constant theme. This attitude is blocking us from getting representation as it turns off many to ALPA.

If AA buys JB then say bye bye to your jobs. They can legally allow the 5 year pea's to expire and then bring on their furloughed guys. If you don't think the lawyers have already thought of ways to circumvent bond mccaskill then you are just ignorant. It will be easy to do, its smart business for AA and its totally legal.

If AA buys JB then say bye bye to your jobs. They can legally allow the 5 year pea's to expire and then bring on their furloughed guys. If you don't think the lawyers have already thought of ways to circumvent bond mccaskill then you are just ignorant. It will be easy to do, its smart business for AA and its totally legal.


Any Black Helicopters circling YOUR house???

As if!!! The majority of American's furloughed pilots have found employment elsewhere. It's been over a DECADE since these guys lost their jobs. AA has a large amount of retirements coming up also. And JB's planes would need pilots to staff them. Your negative view is unrealistic. Training isn't cheap, so there would likely be fences to keep training cost down while a seniority list integration was implemented. Contrary to your view that a master plan is to find contract loop holes to personally screw 2300 pilots is rediculous. What is likely is that management will choose the cheapest option possible.

The issue in an AA - JB merger is whose senior to who, not that we are all going to be unemployed.

Please enlighten me. Tell me all about the McCaskill-Bond. Tell the US Air east guys too. oh yeah, and Frontier. It's not the 80s anymore big shot.

Talk to any 2001 hire at jetBlue and he'll personally tell you how he took a chance and it paid off. I didn't make an absolute statement like you implied with your condescending remark.

Totally clueless.
In case you haven't been paying attention, SWAPA and SWA eviscerated McCaskill-Bond. Here's a scenario for ya if you don't believe it:

AA buys JB. "Here's your stapled list fellas. Oh, don't like that? That's OK, we will operate JB as a separate unit, siphon off the hard assets and furlough from that side of the house until it is gone." Thanks for playing. Door number 2 will be worse. The only fly in that ointment that I can see is that the relationship between APA and management is nowhere near the same as SWAPA/SWA. But as I keep hearing, having a good relationship with management makes you a *****.:rolleyes:

I guess you could use conventional weapons, but that would take years and cost hundreds of lives.

As someone earlier said, maybe ALPA isn't the answer, but you are gonna be left twisting in the wind if you get bought. Good luck.

Any Black Helicopters circling YOUR house???

As if!!! The majority of American's furloughed pilots have found employment elsewhere. It's been over a DECADE since these guys lost their jobs. AA has a large amount of retirements coming up also. And JB's planes would need pilots to staff them. Your negative view is unrealistic. Training isn't cheap, so there would likely be fences to keep training cost down while a seniority list integration was implemented. Contrary to your view that a master plan is to find contract loop holes to personally screw 2300 pilots is rediculous. What is likely is that management will choose the cheapest option possible.

The issue in an AA - JB merger is whose senior to who, not that we are all going to be unemployed.

Cheapest option possible? Ok you're re-hired at the bottom of AA's list at yr1 pay and integrated 50% with Eagle flowthroughs. You will have to go through a full training cycle if AA bought B6 and merged operations anyways.

This post belongs in the merger forum. Not to mention how just down right I'll informed this post is. Ignorance is bliss!!

In case you haven't been paying attention, SWAPA and SWA eviscerated McCaskill-Bond. Here's a scenario for ya if you don't believe it:

AA buys JB. "Here's your stapled list fellas. Oh, don't like that? That's OK, we will operate JB as a separate unit, siphon off the hard assets and furlough from that side of the house until it is gone." Thanks for playing. Door number 2 will be worse. The only fly in that ointment that I can see is that the relationship between APA and management is nowhere near the same as SWAPA/SWA. But as I keep hearing, having a good relationship with management makes you a *****.:rolleyes:

I guess you could use conventional weapons, but I hide in my basement with tons of dolls and cry all night long.

As someone earlier said, maybe ALPA isn't the answer, but you are gonna be left twisting in the wind if you get bought. Good luck.

Yeah genius, that's exactly what happened to AirTran. Oh wait, no, that's what they threatened. If AirTran had any balls they would have taken them to court, but they made out okay anyways.

In case you haven't been paying attention, SWAPA and SWA eviscerated McCaskill-Bond. Here's a scenario for ya if you don't believe it:

AA buys JB. "Here's your stapled list fellas. Oh, don't like that? That's OK, we will operate JB as a separate unit, siphon off the hard assets and furlough from that side of the house until it is gone." Thanks for playing. Door number 2 will be worse. The only fly in that ointment that I can see is that the relationship between APA and management is nowhere near the same as SWAPA/SWA. But as I keep hearing, having a good relationship with management makes you a *****.:rolleyes:

I guess you could use conventional weapons, but that would take years and cost hundreds of lives.

As someone earlier said, maybe ALPA isn't the answer, but you are gonna be left twisting in the wind if you get bought. Good luck.
This shows the blind ignorance on this post. Monkeys will fly out of my you know what before this scenario will happen. There have been to many recent mergers and recent lawsuits regarding mergers to have this ever happen. I have no doubt that some of us will get screwed but what merger ( excluding DAL-NWA) haven't there been screwings. If this is what is going on in your head then I feel bad for you. I personally pitty you and your radically off base theories that have never and will never happen.

Yeah genius, that's exactly what happened to AirTran. Oh wait, no, that's what they threatened. If AirTran had any balls they would have taken them to court, but they made out okay anyways.

I got no dog in the fight, I couldn't care less what happens over there.

Good luck sonny boy.

Yeah genius, that's exactly what happened to AirTran. Oh wait, no, that's what they threatened. If AirTran had any balls they would have taken them to court, but they made out okay anyways.

you know air tran wasn't purchased by SWA right? Airtran was bought by a company called guadalupe holdings... There were no threats, there were statments. there was no mcbond, there was no merger. There was take it or unemployment... wake up man.

Yeah genius, that's exactly what happened to AirTran. Oh wait, no, that's what they threatened. If AirTran had any balls they would have taken them to court, but they made out okay anyways.

I'm going to assume you are just woefully uninformed and not stupid.

Southwest's Plan B: A 'slow dismantling' of AirTran? - USATODAY.com (http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/post/2011/10/southwest-alternate-plan-for-airtran/552777/1)

As for the 'made out okay'...

I was a 2008 hire at ATN. I am now behind every SWAPA pilot except the ones hired after the merger was announced (I was stapled). My domicile is being closed, my equipment sold, my monthly credit has steadily decreased and I'm going back on RSV in September. Any of that sound like we made out ok?

And all of this happened at a company that had a stellar reputation for the way it treated it's employees. Good luck with American.

i'm going to assume you are just woefully uninformed and not stupid.

southwest's plan b: A 'slow dismantling' of airtran? - usatoday.com (http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/post/2011/10/southwest-alternate-plan-for-airtran/552777/1)

as for the 'made out okay'...

I was a 2008 hire at atn. I am now behind every swapa pilot except the ones hired after the merger was announced (i was stapled). My domicile is being closed, my equipment sold, my monthly credit has steadily decreased and i'm going back on rsv in september. Any of that sound like we made out ok?

And all of this happened at a company that had a stellar reputation for the way it treated it's employees. Good luck with american.

sounds like what the twa guys say!!!

I'm going to assume you are just woefully uninformed and not stupid.

Southwest's Plan B: A 'slow dismantling' of AirTran? - USATODAY.com (http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/post/2011/10/southwest-alternate-plan-for-airtran/552777/1)

As for the 'made out okay'...

I was a 2008 hire at ATN. I am now behind every SWAPA pilot except the ones hired after the merger was announced (I was stapled). My domicile is being closed, my equipment sold, my monthly credit has steadily decreased and I'm going back on RSV in September. Any of that sound like we made out ok?

And all of this happened at a company that had a stellar reputation for the way it treated it's employees. Good luck with American.

Tired whining. Move on like everybody else. Uninteresting post at best.

yes just ask the guys that were in the North West pool. wait a second

Ouch, that hurt...don't even get me started.

This shows the blind ignorance on this post. Monkeys will fly out of my you know what before this scenario will happen. There have been to many recent mergers and recent lawsuits regarding mergers to have this ever happen. I have no doubt that some of us will get screwed but what merger ( excluding DAL-NWA) haven't there been screwings. If this is what is going on in your head then I feel bad for you. I personally pitty you and your radically off base theories that have never and will never happen.

Blind ignorance... that's good.... So...

If you are given the choice of being stapled or hitting the street, which monkey will not fly outta your butt? Or do you think you will be flying a 767 soon?

Feel sorry for ME? mmmmkay, whatever bra. Seems to me that you are the one that got all spooled up when I pointed out what happened elsewhere could potentially happen again, but whatever helps you sleep at night I guess. Thanks, but your "pity" is not needed nor desired. Best of luck if any of this is true.

I'm going to assume you are just woefully uninformed and not stupid.

Southwest's Plan B: A 'slow dismantling' of AirTran? - USATODAY.com (http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/post/2011/10/southwest-alternate-plan-for-airtran/552777/1)

As for the 'made out okay'...

I was a 2008 hire at ATN. I am now behind every SWAPA pilot except the ones hired after the merger was announced (I was stapled). My domicile is being closed, my equipment sold, my monthly credit has steadily decreased and I'm going back on RSV in September. Any of that sound like we made out ok?

And all of this happened at a company that had a stellar reputation for the way it treated it's employees. Good luck with American.

I am aware of how Southwest bought you but a Judge is still human. It would take a while (and would not have been worth it), but if Southwest pilots were flying your planes and routes it would eventually have been considered a merger. Scare tactics work.

I'm sorry that you are "going back on RSV in September" at SOUTHWEST AIRLINES when you were hired at AIRTRAN. Maybe you won't be able to buy that boat this year. I think I hear a tiny violin somewhere...

Yeah genius, that's exactly what happened to AirTran. Oh wait, no, that's what they threatened. If AirTran had any balls they would have taken them to court, but they made out okay anyways.

taken SWA to court? LMAO! What world are you living in? A court can't force them to keep airplanes, domiciles and an integrated operation. They said here is the deal, take it or hit the road and that is a fairly easy concept to understand when you face unemployment.

Blind ignorance... that's good.... So...

If you are given the choice of being stapled or hitting the street, which monkey will not fly outta your butt? Or do you think you will be flying a 767 soon?

Feel sorry for ME? mmmmkay, whatever bra. Seems to me that you are the one that got all spooled up when I pointed out what happened elsewhere could potentially happen again, but whatever helps you sleep at night I guess. Thanks, but your "pity" is not needed nor desired. Best of luck if any of this is true.
It looks as thought my pitty is both needed and desired. Come out from that rock you are hiding in and join the modern airline community they aren't going to staple or wait for our PEAs to expire. Not to mention that this whole post is unfounded. I also don't want to be flying a 767 if it is at American I'd rather fly my little 190 at JB with great guys then have to sit next to miserable grumpy guys in a 767, that place is toxic.

It looks as thought my pitty is both needed and desired. Come out from that rock you are hiding in and join the modern airline community they aren't going to staple or wait for our PEAs to expire. Not to mention that this whole post is unfounded. I also don't want to be flying a 767 if it is at American I'd rather fly my little 190 at JB with great guys then have to sit next to miserable grumpy guys in a 767, that place is toxic.

So....you're guaranteeing the lawyers have not looked at letting pea's expire and that it won't happen? I think you are naive to think something like that can't happen but hey its only your career.

It looks as thought my pitty is both needed and desired. Come out from that rock you are hiding in and join the modern airline community they aren't going to staple or wait for our PEAs to expire. Not to mention that this whole post is unfounded. I also don't want to be flying a 767 if it is at American I'd rather fly my little 190 at JB with great guys then have to sit next to miserable grumpy guys in a 767, that place is toxic.

It has nothing to do with what you'd rather have.. it is about what can happen. You will have little if any say in that process.

It seems that Denial really is more than just a river in Egypt. :rolleyes:

So....you're guaranteeing the lawyers have not looked at letting pea's expire and that it won't happen? I think you are naive to think something like that can't happen but hey its only your career.
The lawyers look at everything. I am sure that is a last resort type move if JB pilots don't play ball. If you haven't noticed majority of the pilots at JB first don't hate/ fear our management and second tend to fall in line with managements leadership. What makes you think that that won't happen in the event of a merger. Not to mention that the PEAs give us individual control. I can approve a deal presented as a result of a AA/JB merger meanwhile another guy can say no. Hence I could have a job and he won't, and that is the opinion of my legal advisor not me. Essentially JB/AA management will have to negotiate over 2300 individual PEA's even thought a majority of the PEA's are the same there are differences. AA is going to need pilots why would they get rid of 2300 pilots who are mostly management friendly and are going to be around for another 20 plus years. If any body screws us it will be The bitter current pilot group at American. This is a hypothetical post anyway, there couldn't be two companies that are more different then JB and AA.

It has nothing to do with what you'd rather have.. it is about what can happen. You will have little if any say in that process.

It seems that Denial really is more than just a river in Egypt. :rolleyes:
It actually has a lot to do with what I want. I am not a prisoner to JB. I would rather go back to flying GVs than work at AA.

Yes, most people* agree that airtran would have struggled in the long run without southwest. But it doesn't change the fact that it is painful for airtran pilot's families to make less, lose seats, be at the bottom, and possibly have to start commuting.

In the end, the wife (or husband) and the kids at home have to deal with the decrease in quality of life. It is understandable why some are unhappy with the present situation.

It's like telling someone to not complain about the surgery they just went through because they will be better off in the long run. It still hurts.

Not to mention that the PEAs give us individual control. I can approve a deal presented as a result of a AA/JB merger meanwhile another guy can say no. Hence I could have a job and he won't, and that is the opinion of my legal advisor not me. Essentially JB/AA management will have to negotiate over 2300 individual PEA's even thought a majority of the PEA's are the same there are differences

In other words, they will have 2300 applicants to work at AA.

Is it just me?

In other words, they will have 2300 applicants to work at AA.

Is it just me?
Yes it's just you. 2300 individual deals yes, if the individuals don't play ball then some may be looking for jobs. Applicants no they are employment agreemants hence the word employment not application. There is a rumor that that is why SWA passed up on us and went for AirTran, to much legal headache to deal with 2300 individual PEAs. You can't just walk in and fire 2300 guys for no reason the lawsuits would be astronomical, any legal team would advise against that. Especially once AA begins hiring again. It doesn't matter if AA buys us I am going back to corporate.

Yes it's just you. 2300 individual deals yes, if the individuals don't play ball then some may be looking for jobs. Applicants no they are employment agreemants hence the word employment not application. There is a rumor that that is why SWA passed up on us and went for AirTran, to much legal headache to deal with 2300 individual PEAs. You can't just walk in and fire 2300 guys for no reason the lawsuits would be astronomical, any legal team would advise against that. Especially once AA begins hiring again. It doesn't matter if AA buys us I am going back to corporate.

Depends on what you mean by "play ball". Take your rightful place with full relative? Not likely. The only ball game will be whatever they offer, and AA (company and APA) historically only offer a staple at best. You don't have to accept, but they can guadalupe holdings you and phase out on their terms.

taken SWA to court? LMAO! What world are you living in? A court can't force them to keep airplanes, domiciles and an integrated operation. They said here is the deal, take it or hit the road and that is a fairly easy concept to understand when you face unemployment.

Yes you can sue a company. This isn't Soviet Russia. You guys crack me up.

If they establish that Southwest unlawfully circumvented the The McCaskill-Bond Amendment then they would be held liable for all damages to that group. Southwest was aware of this and this is why you were offered such a good deal (and yes, it was a fair deal). The McCaskill-Bond is pretty loose with it's definition of a Merger.

I'm going to stop talking about this now. If someone want to cite references with a logical argument I'll listen. I'm tired of all these 50 year old Billy Bobs spewing out what my buddy Jeb said on a transcon.

Depends on what you mean by "play ball". Take your rightful place with full relative? Not likely. The only ball game will be whatever they offer, and AA (company and APA) historically only offer a staple at best. You don't have to accept, but they can guadalupe holdings you and phase out on their terms.
Yes you are correct. Full relative won't happen, I am not on any meds. But a reasonably fair deal can be worked out. If individual JB pilots don't like it then the company may choose other options for them. I am on the bottom of JB I know I will be on the bottom of a merger as well.

I probably would not stick around to work in such a toxic environment anyway.

Yes you can sue a company. This isn't Soviet Russia. You guys crack me up.

If they establish that Southwest unlawfully circumvented the The McCaskill-Bond Amendment then they would be held liable for all damages to that group. Southwest was aware of this and this is why you were offered such a good deal (and yes, it was a fair deal). The McCaskill-Bond is pretty loose with it's definition of a Merger.

I'm going to stop talking about this now. If someone want to cite references with a logical argument I'll listen. I'm tired of all these 50 year old Billy Bobs spewing out what my buddy Jeb said on a transcon.
Yeah what he said! I am done with this fictious post. This merger won't happen anyway.
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2012/08/results-of-two-american-union-votes-to-come-after-noon-today.html/

This shows the blind ignorance on this post. Monkeys will fly out of my you know what before this scenario will happen. There have been to many recent mergers and recent lawsuits regarding mergers to have this ever happen. I have no doubt that some of us will get screwed but what merger ( excluding DAL-NWA) haven't there been screwings. If this is what is going on in your head then I feel bad for you. I personally pitty you and your radically off base theories that have never and will never happen.

Said lawsuits are still going, and will be for a while. The TWA suit has been going on for years, and likely will continue that way. No one has won anything. Even if TWA pilots win their suit, they likely won't get the big payout everyone is talking about. A judge is not going to BK a union over the settlement. And NO, ALPA can not cover awarded damages with a member assessment. It is against the ALPA constitution and by laws. Point being, management will do what they want. They won't let past lawsuits stop what is best for their pockets and those of the shareholders.

Yes it's just you. 2300 individual deals yes, if the individuals don't play ball then some may be looking for jobs. Applicants no they are employment agreemants hence the word employment not application. There is a rumor that that is why SWA passed up on us and went for AirTran, to much legal headache to deal with 2300 individual PEAs. You can't just walk in and fire 2300 guys for no reason the lawsuits would be astronomical, any legal team would advise against that. Especially once AA begins hiring again. It doesn't matter if AA buys us I am going back to corporate.

You'll never pass a drug test at AMR. Good luck with that corporate thingy.

Depends on what you mean by "play ball". Take your rightful place with full relative? Not likely. The only ball game will be whatever they offer, and AA (company and APA) historically only offer a staple at best. You don't have to accept, but they can guadalupe holdings you and phase out on their terms.

Naaaaaah he is right. The company will have to deal with those 2300 individual contracts... just like he said. :rolleyes:

You'll never pass a drug test at AMR. Good luck with that corporate thingy.
Your right, I don't do enough drugs to ever be an AMR pilot again. I served my time in hell (AE), I left after the BEX-AE merger and I would never go back and besides I wouldnt meet AMR s min drug qualifications. It sure seems like you could help me out with that, hook a brother up!

Nothing more amusing then watching a young JB pinto rearing back and hoofing the Clydesdales, thinking he's the friskiest pony in the corral. :rolleyes:

Nothing more amusing then watching a young JB pinto rearing back and hoofing the Clydesdales, thinking he's the friskiest pony in the corral. :rolleyes:
And there is nothing more amusing then watching grandpa eat dinner by 0500 and check for his AARP discounts every where he goes.

And there is nothing more amusing then watching grandpa eat dinner by 0500 and check for his AARP discounts every where he goes.

Try and have a heart for the old guys......you're going to be pulling gear for them for a long time. :rolleyes:

You're going to support age 67 ain't ya kid ?

All the grandpa's are counting on your support ! :D

Try and have a heart for the old guys......you're going to be pulling gear for them for a long time. :rolleyes:

You're going to support age 67 ain't ya kid ?

All the grandpa's are counting on your support ! :D
They have it. Congrats on the vote today! I wish our pilot group would get some balls.

And there is nothing more amusing then watching grandpa eat dinner by 0500 and check for his AARP discounts every where he goes.

0500 :confused: zero-five-hundred seems a bit early for dinner even by geezer standards.

BTW AA guys, nice job w/ the TA vote.

0500 :confused: zero-five-hundred seems a bit early for dinner even by geezer standards.'

That must be why they call it the...

Early Bird Special! :D