Airline Pilot Forums

I recently did a jumpseat on ComAir, got the lowdown on what took place over there with the employees (from an employee). Could what happened at ComAir happen to us here ??? From what I was told, ComAir/Delta came to the employees and told them to take a 50% paycut to continue operations status quo, if not they would shut it down ................ ComAir is over in 51 days as it exists, Delta made a deal with some carrier called GOJETS and they are going to fly the same route structure as ComAir did FOR HALF THE MONEY ............ Exactly what Delta wanted. Sadly, some of the ComAir crews have left and gone to GOJETS ...................... So again, could FedEx pull the same thing on us ??? Comments please and I would welcome to hear from anyone at ComAir to further verify this calamity.

What are you smoking dude? Could it happen? sure, but you could walk out your front door tomorrow and get hit by a car! How can you compare Fedex and Comair? There is absolutely no similarities between the two. Are you a little bored and want to stir up the 12 angry men? Get a life man!

I recently did a jumpseat on ComAir, got the lowdown on what took place over there with the employees (from an employee). Could what happened at ComAir happen to us here ??? From what I was told, ComAir/Delta came to the employees and told them to take a 50% paycut to continue operations status quo, if not they would shut it down ................ ComAir is over in 51 days as it exists, Delta made a deal with some carrier called GOJETS and they are going to fly the same route structure as ComAir did FOR HALF THE MONEY ............ Exactly what Delta wanted. Sadly, some of the ComAir crews have left and gone to GOJETS ...................... So again, could FedEx pull the same thing on us ??? Comments please and I would welcome to hear from anyone at ComAir to further verify this calamity.

could it? maybe.

major difference here though, Comair is a wholly owned subsidiary of Delta and if they had all the leverage. Comair has the oldest 50 seat jets and the best contract of the regional s. Delta wanted this to happen, it was going to happen.

Does FedEx want to contract our work out (assuming they would win a scope battle) with 15 contract carriers??? nope, even at rock bottom prices because you get what you pay for. The loss of control and single point service is not possible without cutting yourself off at the knees with the exact reason we survive and thrive , reliable service that they control to the greatest extent practicable.

There's no need to worry about contractors. We'll do it to ourselves, if anything.

No smoke here ............... If you guys think it can't happen because of this and that and whatever your insulation tends to think, I believe we are all fooling ourselves ................ The ComAir dilemma is a real threat and worst of all, legal. I would not discount ANYTHING at this point in time where our company is realizing 2.2% returns on the money and they want better results ......................

No smoke here ............... If you guys think it can't happen because of this and that and whatever your insulation tends to think, I believe we are all fooling ourselves ................ The ComAir dilemma is a real threat and worst of all, legal. I would not discount ANYTHING at this point in time where our company is realizing 2.2% returns on the money and they want better results ......................

Dude did you go to Mars with that space rover? Because it seems like that's where your head is at..

I recently did a jumpseat on ComAir, got the lowdown on what took place over there with the employees (from an employee). Could what happened at ComAir happen to us here ??? From what I was told, ComAir/Delta came to the employees and told them to take a 50% paycut to continue operations status quo, if not they would shut it down ................ Comments please

No smoke here ............... If you guys think it can't happen because of this and that and whatever your insulation tends to think, I believe we are all fooling ourselves ................



Someone else that thinks foreign, or other pilots, are going to take our flying. Have you been flying with BC?

Sorry, I didn't buy this line of thinking when the HKG LOA was in play and I'm not buying it now.

But I do believe this is the mindset that managers use to justify their housing allowance witch hunt. Helps them sleep at night I'm sure.

While I don't think it is going to happen to you at purple it would behoove you to consider one of your largest competitors, DHL. While they do own some lift, a large percentage of their flying is done by contractors on time and with little fanfare. It can be done, it just comes down to how much total control you want over your product. I would be willing to bet that your maintenance guys are even more worried about outsourcing than your pilots. Many lagrge international airlines have shifted much of their heavy checks to third party vendors over the last 10-15 years.

Jet

About 80-90% of our heavy checks are farmed out at FX.

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/427303_10151064622042346_1670943703_n.jpg

I recently did a jumpseat on ComAir, got the lowdown on what took place over there with the employees (from an employee). Could what happened at ComAir happen to us here ??? From what I was told, ComAir/Delta came to the employees and told them to take a 50% paycut to continue operations status quo, if not they would shut it down ................ ComAir is over in 51 days as it exists, Delta made a deal with some carrier called GOJETS and they are going to fly the same route structure as ComAir did FOR HALF THE MONEY ............ Exactly what Delta wanted. Sadly, some of the ComAir crews have left and gone to GOJETS ...................... So again, could FedEx pull the same thing on us ??? Comments please and I would welcome to hear from anyone at ComAir to further verify this calamity.

While I don't think this will happen, I do think they are trying to eliminate flying freight where they can truck it. If UPS can move all their freight with 2700 pilots so can Fedex.

FedEx wouldnt do that.....we just got new TV screens in AOC!...... :D

Here'e the rub......the shareholders, the bottom line, and public image. Could it happen? possibly, but not without the involvement of a lot of people that would feel the worldwide image of the fedex brand would be tarnished by such a maneuver.

thy sky is not falling, chicken little........

could FedEx pull the same thing on us ??? Comments please and I would welcome to hear from anyone at ComAir to further verify this calamity.

I could see FedEx buying all those CRJ 200's for next to nothing and converting them into MD200's! :D

While I don't think this will happen, I do think they are trying to eliminate flying freight where they can truck it. If UPS can move all their freight with 2700 pilots so can Fedex.

I guess we can say there are 2 business models at work, one company trucks everything they can and flys the rest. The other flys their priority freight and uses the remaining space on the aircraft to reduce the amount of trucking they need. Are you seriously worried about the business model changing? Lots of other stuff to be worried about.

Even worse is that ALPA hasn't stepped in. Delta gave all the a/c to a non ALPA airline. I'm glad I give them money every month.

Even worse is that ALPA hasn't stepped in. Delta gave all the a/c to a non ALPA airline. I'm glad I give them money every month.

This is certainly a [deleted] Sandwich for the Pilots and other employees of ComAir. My heart goes out to all of them.

But what exactly do you propose ALPA do? If Management is hell bent on Shutting down ComAir they will shut them down. Look no further than DHL and Midwest Express.

While I don't think this will happen, I do think they are trying to eliminate flying freight where they can truck it. If UPS can move all their freight with 2700 pilots so can Fedex.

FedEx Express has been doing that for years ever since the Bought Roadway and turned it into FedEx Ground. Growth in Our domestic market has been flat for years. The difference was is our massive international growth with a good world economy. Now that things are flat growth has slowed immensely.

I could see FedEx buying all those CRJ 200's for next to nothing and converting them into MD200's! :D

Not enough room to place an engineer panel, switches non-functional, in the cockpit.

I could see FedEx buying all those CRJ 200's for next to nothing and converting them into MD200's! :D

Only if the conversion cost twice as much as a new one.

I guess we can say there are 2 business models at work, one company trucks everything they can and flys the rest. The other flys their priority freight and uses the remaining space on the aircraft to reduce the amount of trucking they need. Are you seriously worried about the business model changing? Lots of other stuff to be worried about.

Not worried. I am in top half of seniority list and still live in my engineer house.

FedEx Express has been doing that for years ever since the Bought Roadway and turned it into FedEx Ground. Growth in Our domestic market has been flat for years. The difference was is our massive international growth with a good world economy. Now that things are flat growth has slowed immensely.

Yes, that is what Fred said. I do think the world economy could get way worse in the next few years.

The key to financial security is not paying wife #1 when living with wife #2. And there is not need for kid set #2 or 3...

Airlines come and go. Court ordered payments just go up.

FedEx Express has been doing that for years ever since the Bought Roadway and turned it into FedEx Ground. Growth in Our domestic market has been flat for years. The difference was is our massive international growth with a good world economy. Now that things are flat growth has slowed immensely.
FedEx Express has most definately not been doing that since they bought Roadway Express. FedEx Ground, formerly Roadway Express, is made up of Independent Contractors who only carry FedEx Ground packages. Any FedEx Express packages that are sent by ground go on the orange and purple trucks; and that has been happening for years. Memphis to Little Rock is a good example.
What FedEx Ground is doing is providing such a reliable and economical alternative to Express, that a lot of Express customers are switching over to Ground. Same thing is happening with FedEx Freight. As an example; I ordered a product on the Internet Monday morning and it was shipped from Baton Rouge, La. to Olive Branch, MS by lunch time Tuesday. You can barely beat that with Express and it sure was a lot cheaper for that company to ship it by Ground.

FedEx Express has most definately not been doing that since they bought Roadway Express. FedEx Ground, formerly Roadway Express, is made up of Independent Contractors who only carry FedEx Ground packages. Any FedEx Express packages that are sent by ground go on the orange and purple trucks; and that has been happening for years. Memphis to Little Rock is a good example.
What FedEx Ground is doing is providing such a reliable and economical alternative to Express, that a lot of Express customers are switching over to Ground. Same thing is happening with FedEx Freight. As an example; I ordered a product on the Internet Monday morning and it was shipped from Baton Rouge, La. to Olive Branch, MS by lunch time Tuesday. You can barely beat that with Express and it sure was a lot cheaper for that company to ship it by Ground.

Sorry, Not exactly true When I lived in MEM. My Monthly FedEx express PaK that my Bid package came in was sent via express and delivered by a Green FedEx Ground Truck. Interesting

BTW next time you are on a crew bus going out to the 700-800 Gates, take a look a lot of Semi Truck trailers/ coming and going. Very Few of them say FedEx Express on them. You will see Swift, JB Hunt, Martin and a host of other trucking firms. They are all hauling FedEx Express P2-3 stuff.

Sorry, Not exactly true When I lived in MEM. My Monthly FedEx express PaK that my Bid package came in was sent via express and delivered by a Green FedEx Ground Truck. Interesting

BTW next time you are on a crew bus going out to the 700-800 Gates, take a look a lot of Semi Truck trailers/ coming and going. Very Few of them say FedEx Express on them. You will see Swift, JB Hunt, Martin and a host of other trucking firms. They are all hauling FedEx Express P2-3 stuff.
If you had a FedEx Ground truck delivering FedEx Express stuff to your house, how does that work out for the RLA protection for FedEx Express? If this FedEx Ground Independent Contractor was delivering FedEx Express packages, how can he still be considered an Independednt Contractor and not a full time employee of FedEx as stipulated in numerous court decisions? Something ain't quite right here!
I get the other trucking companies being used to haul P2 and P3 stuff for Express on a contract basis. They have nothing to do with any of the other operating agencies and probably save the company some money.

I recently did a jumpseat on ComAir,... Could what happened at ComAir happen to us here ???

Clearly you (and likely others) haven't thought this through. I'd like to offer some food for thought.

Let's play "What If". I know this isn't about a strike but stay with me. What if 100% of the FedEx pilots went on strike. What options are available to FedEx? A strike would idle a lot of airplanes, sort facilities, ground vehicles, drivers, etc. etc. In other words, FDX has a lot of money tied up in infrastructure and human resources ... cost that would continue every day of a strike. Hiring other carriers to fly for FedEx brings a whole new set of problems. Do the cans fit their airplanes? Do our employees know how to interface with an array of different airplane types that might be employed? You get the idea. The best solution for FDX would be to use all the current infrastructure which would mean they would need to bring in replacement pilots that would fly the current airplanes in the FDX fleet. That means everything associated with the current operation could be utilized. Where would that many pilots come from and how long would it take to get them trained to fly FDX airplanes ... all while the infrastructure remains idle?

Now, consider the way FDX pilots operate the airplanes? Our procedures reflect the navigation requirements around the world .. Class II navigation, use of CPDLC, etc. etc. so these new pilots would have to get trained in all these procedural issues in order to utilize the infrastructure system wide. That would be time consuming and would set back pilot procedures several years if shortcuts were attempted. What a mess!

FedEx has a business plan that incorporates the airplanes and pilots on the property. If that wasn't the best way to do business, management wouldn't be doing it ... they would be doing something different because the ALPA contract doesn't control how management runs the business. Hence, the current business model is in place because management feels it best serves their needs. Those needs can change (as happened at Delta) and a different model could be defined at some point but for that to change significantly would be to forgo the franchise that is FedEx Express. There will be modifications to the way flight ops are conducted but, in general, it is the way it is because it represents the best way to achieve the business model and reflect the FedEx franchise. Management has proven over time that they are control freaks. And I mean that in a good way. Just recall the mass of different airplanes/carriers used at one time for the Feeder operation. It was a mess. FDX took control by owning the airplanes and using only a few types in the fleet. Today there are only a handful of Feeder carriers flying the FDX feeder fleet. In other words, management took a mess and brought it essentially in-house to regain control. It's the way it is because management wants it this way. For that to change would require a massive change in what is, today, the FedEx franchise.

Baja,

Very nice post, but for it to be considered a really good APC post it should have some really stupid, way-out-in-left-field rumor, that you heard either on the crew bus, or in timbuktu.

Again, nice job.

JJ

Baja,

Very nice post, but for it to be considered a really good APC post it should have some really stupid, way-out-in-left-field rumor, that you heard either on the crew bus, or in timbuktu.

Again, nice job.

JJ


Irish pilots can be trained to fly our airplanes.:eek:

You must be kidding us because I know a bunch of Irish pilots who work at FedEx now and they can barely fly the jets.:D Have you seen any of them? As well, with all that red hair....

JJ

Irish pilots can be trained to fly our airplanes.:eek:

Of course they can. I acknowledged that but you have to also consider the time it would take to train at even an accelerated pace. The equipment would be idle too long. Now, I absolutely would expect a handfull of pilots to get hired for appearance sake (pilot's contract with pilot service provider to be terminated later ... cost of negotiation and posturing). I can hardly keep up with all the procedural changes month to month. And that's from a foundation of knowledge prior to changes. Imagine knowing nothing of our procedures and int'l protocol. It would be a corporate nightmare to try to bring a large cadre of new pilots up to speed. Yes, it could eventually be accomplished but in what time frame? And how many scab instructors with intimate knowledge of FDX procedures would be available for such mass training? And would there be enough simulator time available in MEM or elsewhere?

FDX managements banks on an assumption that the pilots, as a collective group, could never be cohesive enough to provide that kind of leverage. So their unknown would be to learn what percentage of pilots WOULD participate in a labor action. The answer is Blowing In The Wind.

nevermind.....................

Of course they can. I acknowledged that but you have to also consider the time it would take to train at even an accelerated pace. The equipment would be idle too long. Now, I absolutely would expect a handfull of pilots to get hired for appearance sake (pilot's contract with pilot service provider to be terminated later ... cost of negotiation and posturing). I can hardly keep up with all the procedural changes month to month. And that's from a foundation of knowledge prior to changes. Imagine knowing nothing of our procedures and int'l protocol. It would be a corporate nightmare to try to bring a large cadre of new pilots up to speed. Yes, it could eventually be accomplished but in what time frame? And how many scab instructors with intimate knowledge of FDX procedures would be available for such mass training? And would there be enough simulator time available in MEM or elsewhere?

FDX managements banks on an assumption that the pilots, as a collective group, could never be cohesive enough to provide that kind of leverage. So their unknown would be to learn what percentage of pilots WOULD participate in a labor action. The answer is Blowing In The Wind.

It was a joke. Maybe before your time. We had to sign the loa to memoralize the foreign flying or else the company would just hire Irish and chinese pilots was one of the scare tactics employed to muster the yes vote and no it was the company trying to scare us.

If you had a FedEx Ground truck delivering FedEx Express stuff to your house, how does that work out for the RLA protection for FedEx Express? If this FedEx Ground Independent Contractor was delivering FedEx Express packages, how can he still be considered an Independednt Contractor and not a full time employee of FedEx as stipulated in numerous court decisions? Something ain't quite right here!
I get the other trucking companies being used to haul P2 and P3 stuff for Express on a contract basis. They have nothing to do with any of the other operating agencies and probably save the company some money.

Flyinhigh, Sorry I ain't an RLA attorney and I didn't stay at a holiday Inn express last night, so I can't accurately answer your legal question about FedEx Ground and RLA issues.
All I know is they delivered my Express package, but that was in the early 1999-2005

As to the other Trucking companies at the Memphis Hub:
The Point here is that Trucks are moving FedEx Express Freight. Not everything goes on a Purple and Orange Truck, but that matters not to us. The Point that matters is A Truck is moving some Express Freight that was once was moved by an aircraft.

You guys are good until ALPA says: Best SCOPE in the industry or 'Last man standing'... Heard that at yellow..


Title of this song relates, me thinks..

Rainbow - Can't Happen Here 1981 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWgmT0lRG9M)

I could see FedEx buying all those CRJ 200's for next to nothing and converting them into MD200's! :D
I flew for Mountain Air Cargo out of Memphis for the past 5 years and I will say that FedEx doesn't care about the feeders. We were non-union and FedEx had total control over our hiring, training, and flying, but the FedEx managers under utilized the aircraft and the pilots. They would never buy CR200's for the feeders. The FedEx contract prohibits feeders from flying jets. I doubt they will contract out the heavy flying either. When I was a Captain at Mountain Air I flew the ATR from MEM to RST with 200 lbs of freight then ferried back to MEM. I was told by a manager that we charged FedEx about $4000/hr so that trip cost approximately $20,000. I saw that sort of thing all too often on ad-hoc flights. I flew the ATR with a 1% freight load several times. I literally had one 5lb box on-board a plane that could hold 15,000 lb of cargo. FedEx could operate far more efficiently than it currently is and could utilize rail and trucks more than it does, but I think all the FedEx pilot jobs are safe... for now. But what do I know, I was just feeder scum.

I live in Miami now and everyone is saying that Skylease Cargo and Centurion are merging next month. Centurion is building a rather large cargo facility at MIA and there are rumors that FedEx will purchase Centurion for the facility and for its contracts. I'll only believe it when it happens though.

Was the one 5 lb box from corkys or interstate?

No, it was for the Mayo clinic.

I flew for Mountain Air Cargo out of Memphis for the past 5 years and I will say that FedEx doesn't care about the feeders. We were non-union and FedEx had total control over our hiring, training, and flying, but the FedEx managers under utilized the aircraft and the pilots. They would never buy CR200's for the feeders. The FedEx contract prohibits feeders from flying jets. I doubt they will contract out the heavy flying either. When I was a Captain at Mountain Air I flew the ATR from MEM to RST with 200 lbs of freight then ferried back to MEM. I was told by a manager that we charged FedEx about $4000/hr so that trip cost approximately $20,000. I saw that sort of thing all too often on ad-hoc flights. I flew the ATR with a 1% freight load several times. I literally had one 5lb box on-board a plane that could hold 15,000 lb of cargo. FedEx could operate far more efficiently than it currently is and could utilize rail and trucks more than it does, but I think all the FedEx pilot jobs are safe... for now. But what do I know, I was just feeder scum.

I have flown a 777 mem to icn with 150,000 lbs of freight and also with nothing but empty cans.

As to the other Trucking companies at the Memphis Hub:
The Point here is that Trucks are moving FedEx Express Freight. Not everything goes on a Purple and Orange Truck, but that matters not to us. The Point that matters is A Truck is moving some Express Freight that was once was moved by an aircraft.

Trucks move a ton of Express freight... the fact that this is news to any of you is... surprising. Some pretty long distances too, often transcontinental. They could put that stuff on a planes, but then our margin goes down, and then they'll have to ask for concessions...

Express is also looking at turning over facilities such as CPR and GJT to Ground in the next few years, moving all "express saver" and other low priority freight to Ground to trim costs.

As the entire trucking network sophisticates, this will become more of the trend, and the airline will become more UPS-like. It's in the long term plan to fully integrate both companies...

Trucks move a ton of Express freight... the fact that this is news to any of you is... surprising. Some pretty long distances too, often transcontinental...

I think that was the whole Point. This isn't news to us and has always been a concern to the Pilots.

Domestically our growth has peaked. FedEx began trucking more and more Priority Freight many years ago and has been increasing it.

The Domestic Economy has stalled growth. Most customers now are willing to accept 2-3 day delivery instead of overnight and pay less.

The world economy has now slowed. Europe is in recession and growth in Asia, especially China is coming to a halt.

No Surprises.

I flew for Mountain Air Cargo out of Memphis for the past 5 years and I will say that FedEx doesn't care about the feeders. We were non-union and FedEx had total control over our hiring, training, and flying, but the FedEx managers under utilized the aircraft and the pilots. They would never buy CR200's for the feeders. The FedEx contract prohibits feeders from flying jets. I doubt they will contract out the heavy flying either. When I was a Captain at Mountain Air I flew the ATR from MEM to RST with 200 lbs of freight then ferried back to MEM. I was told by a manager that we charged FedEx about $4000/hr so that trip cost approximately $20,000. I saw that sort of thing all too often on ad-hoc flights. I flew the ATR with a 1% freight load several times. I literally had one 5lb box on-board a plane that could hold 15,000 lb of cargo. FedEx could operate far more efficiently than it currently is and could utilize rail and trucks more than it does, but I think all the FedEx pilot jobs are safe... for now. But what do I know, I was just feeder scum.

Hum! wonder why a company would reduce, slash, offer early outs in-order to save money. I was once in management operations always sniffing out the victims who say it won't happen to me! says the shark.

If you had a FedEx Ground truck delivering FedEx Express stuff to your house, how does that work out for the RLA protection for FedEx Express? If this FedEx Ground Independent Contractor was delivering FedEx Express packages, how can he still be considered an Independednt Contractor and not a full time employee of FedEx as stipulated in numerous court decisions? Something ain't quite right here!My first thought is just because a truck is painted different colors doesn't make it an outsourcing issue. Maybe trucks are painted differently...to advertise!

No, it was for the Mayo clinic.
You took that one box to the Mayo Clinic because FedEx said they would have it there on that day. It probably came in late from somewhere and missed the sort. Rather than delay everything going to RST, they fired up the backup plan (you) and kept "the Purple Promise" to a large customer. That's why FedEx can charge the big bucks.

The Purple Promise is a great thing, just very expensive to achieve. I bled purple for years but I was tired of being treated and paid like scum as a feeder pilot. Maybe one day, if FedEx doesn't drastically alter the business model this fall in their "comprehensive restructuring" then I'll get hired back as a mainline pilot.

The Purple Promise is a great thing, just very expensive to achieve. I bled purple for years but I was tired of being treated and paid like scum as a feeder pilot. Maybe one day, if FedEx doesn't drastically alter the business model this fall in their "comprehensive restructuring" then I'll get hired back as a mainline pilot.

I don't know why the feeder folks aren't treated better but wish they were. They contribute to the company's success in a meaningful way.

I don't know why the feeder folks aren't treated better but wish they were. They contribute to the company's success in a meaningful way.

But, unfortunately they don't actually work for the company to which they're contributing. They work for a contractor who knows they can get by without paying a premium.

Isn't that the same thing as a mainline Major pilot saying "I don't know why the RJ/express folks aren't treated better"?

In both cases, we already know the answer.