Airline Pilot Forums

OPERATION ORANGE | Protecting the Flying Public & Restoring the Piloting Profession (http://www.operationorange.org/)

A must read, great blog posts.

I like their last blog about attacking the RLA. The Ops Orange org is a valid attempt to gather all professional pilots together in a sense that, while not a union, they promote unity in thought and action to management abuses that are stunningly similar across multiple companies.

We face an enemy with a common strategy... use of courts, judges, and the RLA to force pilots to "behave." We should also have a common strategy, a voice, to affect change and influence the feds and the traveling public.

Solid ideas and puts the underlying fundamental problem with our profession in the spotlight. Without the RLA our bargaining power would be much greater. Unfortunately the nanny state exists, so in order to protect the public we sacrifice liberty. Not cool.

I did not read the article, but my understanding of operation orange is that it is a bunch of airline pilots as well as low timers who are looking over their shoulder pointing their fingers at upcoming pilots who are taking the crappy jobs just to get their careers going, and blaming them for accepting low wages and underselling "everyone else."

It is a point that would have merit if these people who support and run operation orange hadn't once themselves taken those very same "crappy jobs" to get their careers going.
For example, a pilot I know got hired at a major carrier who's starting wage was 37K (and in Canada, you're not taking home much after tax). One day he was grumbling to me about how bad the starting wage was, and how it was the fault of the "5000+ other pilots who would be willing to work for such low wages."

Maybe I'm just jaded, but it sounds ridiculous, self centered, andnhypocritical.

I did not read the article, but my understanding of operation orange is that it is a bunch of airline pilots as well as low timers who are looking over their shoulder pointing their fingers at upcoming pilots who are taking the crappy jobs just to get their careers going, and blaming them for accepting low wages and underselling "everyone else."

It is a point that would have merit if these people who support and run operation orange hadn't once themselves taken those very same "crappy jobs" to get their careers going.
For example, a pilot I know got hired at a major carrier who's starting wage was 37K (and in Canada, you're not taking home much after tax). One day he was grumbling to me about how bad the starting wage was, and how it was the fault of the "5000+ other pilots who would be willing to work for such low wages."

Maybe I'm just jaded, but it sounds ridiculous, self centered, andnhypocritical.

Gotta start somewhere. Everyone knows that they are part of the problem in some way or another. But we are stuck in this hole and we need to try and educate people before they fall into the hole with us.

By educating the general public, the evil entities will find it more challenging to poison the minds of new comers. The truth will find a way one day or another.

Gotta start somewhere. Everyone knows that they are part of the problem in some way or another. But we are stuck in this hole and we need to try and educate people before they fall into the hole with us.

By educating the general public, the evil entities will find it more challenging to poison the minds of new comers. The truth will find a way one day or another.

I agree! We have to start somewhere, but my point was simply that we ALL have to be on board at all times. We all have to refuse to work for low wages. The problem is, there will always be people willing to stoop below the "moral line" because it'll mean short term pain for long term gain.

This wreaks of the national seniority list people. Not a bad idea, but not seated anywhere close to reality.

Until someone takes the bull by the horns and addresses a thorny but not intractable problem...

This could be the start of something big.

I did not read the article, but my understanding of operation orange is that it is a bunch of airline pilots as well as low timers who are looking over their shoulder pointing their fingers at upcoming pilots who are taking the crappy jobs just to get their careers going, and blaming them for accepting low wages and underselling "everyone else."

Let's look to the quality of the message, not the messenger. Much of what I've read there makes sense. No one is going to agree with all of it, of course.

Considering how much earning power pilots have lost since the early 90's it seems that a lot of us would be angry enough to take their message very seriously.

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The public is as educated as they need to be, they enjoy low fares in the safest air transportation system in the world.

The real problem is supply and demand, there is a very good supply of pilots to meet the demand. Want to make more? Go where demand is high or the business model earns more for every pilot hired.

Or, you can waste your time thinking your union is going to change the economic outcome of your company, or orange is going to change the laws of the nation. Your choice, it makes no difference to me.

If you think the public is sympathetic to anyone making 300k a year for any reason, you have not been watching.

If you think the public is sympathetic to anyone making 300k a year for any reason, you have not been watching.

How bout for folks making 1/15 of that?

How bout for folks making 1/15 of that?

Two things matter, low fares and planes that don't fall out of the sky too often. They are just as concerned about your pay as you are about theirs.

Are you worried about how much the fry chef makes at mcdees?

This could be the start of something big.

It's the start of nothing.

Read Mr. Jungle's two previous posts to this one...both are right on point.

The market determines everything.