Joepilot84

He didn't have to pay the contract, did he? Most companies don't deliver on their promises, and if they do, then there is no reason to break contract. The fact is that in the majority of cases, companies fail to collect on these agreements.


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Ben Kenobi

You obviously have an unflappable preconceived notion on this issue. He did pay part of the contract (if there ever was a true contract) by working for Flexjet as long as he did. It was his duty under the alleged terms to remain employed for a certain period of time. Therefore, every day he was employed he was fulfilling a portion of his contractual obligation. Why do think they only sued for a portion of the outstanding balance?

JohnBurke

Cite the majority of the cases.

In this case, "not paying" didn't set a precedent. Almost certainly he spent more in court and attorney fees than he "saved" by not honoring his word.

Most companies don't deliver on their promises? Got something to back that up? I certainly haven't seen that to be the case, and I'm willing to bet I've worked for a LOT more companies than you.

Who are these companies that aren't fulfilling their "promises?"

Ben Kenobi

Please see bolded text above. And I'll raise this salient observation with the notion that the cost was even higher to Miller. The time, energy and lost sleep invested in attempting to vindicate his almost untenable position.

Cubdriver

Thanks a ton, JB and Obi.

It's a huge disservice to others, highly misleading when people come here and say

• companies never take these contracts seriously and just about never collect on one of them

• just sign any contract you want because you'll be skipping happily along to Delta Airlines soon anyway

• these contracts are not based on valid contract law, I heard that Right to Work laws makes any contract invalid. You can skip town and not pay because they can't come after you, it's all just for show.



Rather, the exact opposite is the case-

• they do matter in a purely ethical, moralistic sense of keeping your word

• they are legally binding in most circumstances

• the companies do hire lawyers to come after pilots who break them

• some companies actually misuse such agreements as a basis for suing unlucky pilots who are fired for no cause or fault of their own

Ben Kenobi

Always a pleasure, even though I'm new here. :-)

Joepilot84

Ok, that has been my experience, but I've only worked for seven 135 operations, and a few flight schools, as well as a couple part 91 gigs. How many companies is it that you've worked for again? I don't fault them for it, but I've seen a whole lot of selling expectations that can't be delivered upon. That being said I don't personally sign anything one sided. As I said before, I've only signed one contract that was one sided and they ended up screwing me when I temporarily lost my medical. They sent me letters, and when I contacted an attorney, he gave me the exact advice I passed on previously. Take it for what it's worth, but it was the case with that particular contract. That being said, I did fulfill my portion of the contract to the best of my abilities. After that occurrence I rewrite whatever contract is presented to me to make it fair and balanced. IE, I add the terms that I previously described, to make sure I can't be screwed. My abilities and experience however allow me to do that. I wasn't in a position to do that when I had 1000hrs and was trying to get my first multi IFR job. You can disagree with what I say all you want, but I speak only from my personal experience.


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JohnBurke

Counting full time, seasonal, relief, temporary, contract, government, corporate, airline, charter, fractional, and other duties listed as recent experience, it's seven pages of short-listing by name, address, phone number, and brief description. I will leave it at that. A few more than you; yours wouldn't fit on page one. Go back beyond recent experience (what's not needed for a background check, security clearance, or a typical job application), and it's a little more extensive.

Perhaps I haven't signed on with those bad companies that you seem to run into that make up the "majority" of them. Perhaps I've just been lucky.

Joepilot84

Perhaps. Seems to be the case more often than not that any company using training contracts without sending people to sim school is a bottom feeder operation. It's a different story when they are sending you to school.


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JohnBurke

"Sim school?" You mean providing aircraft specific training in the form of a recurrent or a type rating?

The industry standard is a six month commitment for recurrent flight training, twelve months for a type rating.

I've never seen a "training contract" where training isn't part of the equation. Certainly there may be cases where a company might have a contract for training and then fail to provide it, but that's really neither here nor there, as the company has defaulted on their agreement.

Have you worked for companies that required you to sign an agreement to remain a period of time, when no type rating or training was part of the bargain? Why would you enter into such an agreement?