Exceeding 8 hr in 24 135.265
05-27-2016, 08:49 PM
#1
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Posts: 39
Exceeding 8 hr in 24 135.265
I'm sure this has been hashed out many times but I was unable to find an answer in my quick search. To settle a discussion with a co worker, here's the scenario: Single pilot operating under 135.265 with over 10 hours rest prior to starting the trip. The route is two legs, scheduled for 7.5 hours of flight time. The first leg is scheduled for 5.0 hours but encounters heinous headwinds and takes 6.0 hours. The next leg is scheduled for 2.5 hours. Can the pilot depart on the second leg knowing they will exceed 8 hours flight time?
05-28-2016, 09:41 AM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: JAFO- First Observer
Posts: 997
There are exisiting legal interpretations on this subject. Do a google search for "FAA Legal Interpretations". You will find a public, searchable web site.
If said headwinds were stronger than originally forecast, that "could" be interpreted as "circumstances beyond the control of the certificate holder". In this case, if you were legal to start, you were legal to finish. However, if the extra flyng time causes PIC fatigue, and the PIC does not discontinue the flight due to this fatigue, then this could be a careless operation and therefore may be found contrary to 14 CFR 91.13...
If said headwinds were stronger than originally forecast, that "could" be interpreted as "circumstances beyond the control of the certificate holder". In this case, if you were legal to start, you were legal to finish. However, if the extra flyng time causes PIC fatigue, and the PIC does not discontinue the flight due to this fatigue, then this could be a careless operation and therefore may be found contrary to 14 CFR 91.13...
05-28-2016, 10:06 AM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 867
Don't forget that the planning has to be reasonable, too. Don't assume a 100 kt tailwind on all eastbound legs. Also, you referenced "flight time." If fltplan.com generated 7.5 hrs of flight time and you're going to have to factor in the taxi time because the "flight time" you are limited by is block time. Going in/out of LGA can mess-up that plan. From 14 CFR 1.1:
Also, here's the link to the Chief Counsel's office LOI search:
Http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/...terpretations/
Flight time means:
(1) Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing;
(1) Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing;
Http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/...terpretations/
05-28-2016, 09:19 PM
#4
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Posts: 39
Thanks, I appreciate the feedback and the link. Our main point of disagreement is the departure for the second leg. The normally scheduled flight time is reasonable and is completed in under 8 hours regularly. One argument is that since departing on the second leg is under your control, you are knowingly and willingly busting 8 hours. The other argument is that the whole day of flying is scheduled under 8 hours block time and the adverse weather conditions are beyond your control at the start of the day, therefore, 135.263 (d) states your are legal to finish the day/assigned flights.
06-02-2016, 04:27 PM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Dream Job
Posts: 403
Originally Posted by Hand Commander
Thanks, I appreciate the feedback and the link. Our main point of disagreement is the departure for the second leg. The normally scheduled flight time is reasonable and is completed in under 8 hours regularly. One argument is that since departing on the second leg is under your control, you are knowingly and willingly busting 8 hours. The other argument is that the whole day of flying is scheduled under 8 hours block time and the adverse weather conditions are beyond your control at the start of the day, therefore, 135.263 (d) states your are legal to finish the day/assigned flights.
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