I've been reading through many posts and talking to many career pilots in regards to hirings mins and just can't seem to figure it out:
Why is jet SIC worth less than any GA PIC (I.e. all that time was in light GA aircraft)? A Jet is an enormously more complex aircraft than anything Brian has ever touched, so why is Andy penalized? (see below)
E.g.:
Andy (regional FO) has 1500hrs TT: 250 PIC (in C172s) and 1200 multi-jet-SIC.
Brian (a CFI) has 1500hrs TT: 1300 PIC (in C172s), 200 multi. (piper Seneca)
According to the posts I've read, Brian is more competitive than Andy simply because he has so much more PIC.
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Yep, exactly. The more the PIC time, the more chances you've had to go out there and make decisions, evaluate situations, and learn from mistakes. That experience is endlessly more valuable than sitting next to the person doing it, no matter what airplane you're in.
Plus, if you have 1500TT of GA time, it means you've probably been employed in the general aviation world. Which means you've probably been put in some tough situations and gained a lot of above mentioned experience in a trial-by-fire method.
Someone who has 1500TT, most of which is jet-PIC, screams to me that they bought their job and they're a seat filler without any real ability to add to the flight other than doing rote mundane tasks.
Of course, there are exceptions to both examples....
Yep, exactly. The more the PIC time, the more chances you've had to go out there and make decisions, evaluate situations, and learn from mistakes. That experience is endlessly more valuable than sitting next to the person doing it, no matter what airplane you're in.
Plus, if you have 1500TT of GA time, it means you've probably been employed in the general aviation world. Which means you've probably been put in some tough situations and gained a lot of above mentioned experience in a trial-by-fire method.
Someone who has 1500TT, most of which is jet-PIC, screams to me that they bought their job and they're a seat filler without any real ability to add to the flight other than doing rote mundane tasks.
Of course, there are exceptions to both examples....
. I agree with everything about it not mattering what type of airplane it is . PIC is about decesion makings being in charge runing the shown etc etc . PIC always comes on top and will be weighed more than anything. However, I don't understand where you come off as saying you view someone who say has 1500 hours and good chunk of it is SIC( I assume that's what you ment.) that they "bought" their job ? Just because someone didnt have 1200 hours of dual given like you may have had before landing a regional job, or whatever the case may be.
I'm not sure we'll find many civilians with 1500 and most of that is Jet-PIC. And if you tell a military pilot they "bought" their job you've got bigger problems than your thinking.
it's not the type of plane that matters all that much..it's the decision making and responsibility that comes along with being a PIC and/or CFI
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This definitely makes sense to me.
But I'm going out on a limb here but... my assumption is that being a regional FO gives you a whole new (higher) level of exposure with much more complex operations and weather considerations to deal with. Again it's just my assumption since I'm obviously not a jet pilot.
Doesn't that experience count much more toward becoming a more competitive pilot for the Fractionals or Majors than instructing students for thousands of hours?
Not that being a CFI isn't tough! But it seems to me that getting experience in an "airline-jet-complex airspace" environment is what employers would prefer over PIC time?
But I'm going out on a limb here but... my assumption is that being a regional FO gives you a whole new (higher) level of exposure with much more complex operations and weather considerations to deal with. Again it's just my assumption since I'm obviously not a jet pilot.
Doesn't that experience count much more toward becoming a more competitive pilot for the Fractionals or Majors than instructing students for thousands of hours?
Not that being a CFI isn't tough! But it seems to me that getting experience in an "airline-jet-complex airspace" environment is what employers would prefer over PIC time?
You are forgetting about the highly structured environment that P121 and most P135 companies operate under during normal conditions. Eventually - that is why most employers like a mix of the two. Some PIC time to check the aeronautical decision making block, and the P121/P135 time to check the airline type operations block.
I've been reading through many posts and talking to many career pilots in regards to hirings mins and just can't seem to figure it out:
Why is jet SIC worth less than any GA PIC (I.e. all that time was in light GA aircraft)? A Jet is an enormously more complex aircraft than anything Brian has ever touched, so why is Andy penalized? (see below)
E.g.:
Andy (regional FO) has 1500hrs TT: 250 PIC (in C172s) and 1200 multi-jet-SIC.
Brian (a CFI) has 1500hrs TT: 1300 PIC (in C172s), 200 multi. (piper Seneca)
According to the posts I've read, Brian is more competitive than Andy simply because he has so much more PIC.
Not necessarily, it would depend on what the job was. If it was bush pilot job, they'd take Brian for sure.
If it was a regional FO job they'd probably take Andy.
No major would hire Brian (no turbine time). Some might hire Andy, but only if he was well-connected.
Turbine experience and PIC experience are two different things.
Turbine means you can (probably) handle complex machinery.
PIC means you can (probably) exercise judgement and decision-making skills.
A guy who is a master of jet technology but is afraid or incapable of making a decision is going to make a bad airline CA.
A guy who is a skilled and experienced ASEL bush pilot but just cannot fully grasp the intricacies of a glass jet will also make a bad airline CA.
What major airlines really want is turbine PIC...best of both worlds.
I agree with Rick, and I have seen repeatedly in my travels that jet skill does not necessarily correlate with GA skill. It's simply a different game. Now it may be that the typical jet pilot is a better pilot on average than the typical GA pilot, which could happen by virtue of career dynamics. But if you drop a high-time jet person into an Apache or a SuperCub all bets are off. The skills do not correlate very closely. The other issue is, does PIC in any airplane have greater value than SIC in the same machine. Obviously it does.
I agree with Rick, and I have seen repeatedly in my travels that jet skill does not necessarily correlate with GA skill. It's simply a different game. Now it may be that the typical jet pilot is a better pilot on average than the typical GA pilot, which could happen by virtue of career dynamics. But if you drop a high-time jet person into an Apache or a SuperCub all bets are off. The skills do not correlate very closely. The other issue is, does PIC in any airplane have greater value than SIC in the same machine. Obviously it does.
Would you expect that more experienced jet pilot (assumed in your scenario) to be to able to 'pick the GA up again' and little quicker than that less experienced GA pilot transitioning into a jet?
One has presumably some previous GA experience from which to draw while the other may be entering into a whole new realm of aviation for which s/he has no comparison.
Personally I have been finding reentering the GA world (in a way) has been very rewarding for me and I feel much more like a 'real' pilot now than ever before. I love the airplane and the places I go, though I do feel that things happen slower and at a more controlled pace than I was use to in the past. I certainly seem to have more time to 'look around ' at 4 miles a minutes than I did at 8-10!
I have the opportunity to fly with pilots from differing backgrounds and I have found that what I would consider to be the best 'pure' pilots (meaning their overall understanding of the aviation world) come from the civilian background pilots whom mostly have other aviation related experience like ATC for example and then flew the standard route to gain experience of instructing, night freight, or air ambulance.
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Why is jet SIC time < GA PIC?
' at 4 miles a minutes than I did at 8-10!
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