Better to fly professionally or for fun?
10-14-2014, 04:19 PM
#31
On Reserve
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Posts: 19
The view from the other side of the glass
Originally Posted by Rama
It can get mundane, but it beats the cubicle world.
Interesting thread to read as I sit here in year 15 of a cushy six-figure desk job pondering my first airline interview in a few weeks. Five miles away, a soft rain falls on my airplane. It's been a busy year for her as I've poured a good chunk of my discretionary income into her fuel tanks while crisscrossing and exploring the western US.
The vast majority of my friends are airline pilots. For years I've put up with their b1tching and whining about the problems of the profession. Yet not a single one of them expressed anything less than jubilation when I quietly announced my plans to trade pocket protector and slide rule for yoke and throttle. The truth is ANY career you undertake has its share of jerks and quirks. I have one of those jobs that causes people's (especially pilots') jaws to drop when I tell them what I do - and we have no shortage of idiots and idiocy in this profession too! Hell, I even have a window seat! (those of you who have slaved in cubicle land know what that means
)I've also been a CFI on the side for nearly a decade. For a while that appeased my flying addiction. After the market reset in 2008, instructing opportunities slowed to a trickle. I started going through aviation withdrawal and that's when I realized that I enjoyed flying so much that I'd even pay to do it. A few months later I became one of the Os in AOPA. Ever since then, the day job seems more and more like it's just a means to an end...money in the bank to go fly my airplane!
I used to joke that if I ever got laid off, rather than going on welfare I'd just go fly for a regional. Well...ahem....for the first time in over a decade my org is laying off skilled, experienced professionals. I have lots of seniority and staying power, but this might just be the chance to get out before things get worse. Machiavelli would say fortune favors those who act rather than react, so let's hope he's right.
At least I can say I'm going into this with my eyes wide open. My biggest fear is being unable to live on a starting salary that is roughly half of the starting salary in my present career was 15 years ago. All of my airline friends point to the fact fully NONE of them died of malnutrition in the course of their regional airline flying. For what I've been paying him lately, I really hope my accountant will have some suggestions too! In the meantime, if anyone's looking to pick up the lease on a low miles Genesis, PM me!
10-22-2014, 06:46 AM
#32
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 66
I am in your boat and keep thinking about making a change. I take care of a c150 that I'm hoping to get more hours in and start instructing in this spring. Working on commercial/instrument/cfi now and only have around 350hrs. Big thing holding me back isn't the initial pay, but also that I want to stay around PHL and avoid commuting 2000 miles to work.
I noticed Mooniac! I use a friends m20c and its a great plane.
I noticed Mooniac! I use a friends m20c and its a great plane.
10-22-2014, 10:51 AM
#33
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,998
Someone wise once commented that one should make one's vocation something one enjoys; if so, then one never works another day in one's life.
I fly because I enjoy flying. The fact that they pay me to do it is a nice touch.
The fact that they pay me really well to do it is an extra nice touch.
If there's something outside of aviation you'd rather do more, and then fly for fun, do that.
If you find yourself drawn to flying for a living, and you're willing to make the commitment, then do that.
Just like making a forced landing: make your decision, commit, and don't look back.
I fly because I enjoy flying. The fact that they pay me to do it is a nice touch.
The fact that they pay me really well to do it is an extra nice touch.
If there's something outside of aviation you'd rather do more, and then fly for fun, do that.
If you find yourself drawn to flying for a living, and you're willing to make the commitment, then do that.
Just like making a forced landing: make your decision, commit, and don't look back.
10-22-2014, 05:45 PM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Baja Vermont
Posts: 5,171
JamesAA,
Be careful, the choice of "fly professionally or for fun" is a false one. Loads of professionals find flying fun, loads of other professionals find flying drudgery or soul killing. Loads of "amateurs" fly haphazardly, loads of other "amateurs" fly so professionally they'd put the pros to shame. Point being, aviation takes a deep dedication, a devotion to the task not unlike a love that makes a marriage go "until death".
The life is difficult, civil or military, pay won't be what you expect, you are tested and subject to medical standards in ways no other professional is, you will be tied to a business enterprise that has vast amounts of money to provide you with a machine to use your skills. Lawyers, accountants and doctors can genuinely put out their "shingle" and earn a livelihood. As pilot, if someone won't spend millions on you, you're no more than a homeless person. Think about that.
GF
Be careful, the choice of "fly professionally or for fun" is a false one. Loads of professionals find flying fun, loads of other professionals find flying drudgery or soul killing. Loads of "amateurs" fly haphazardly, loads of other "amateurs" fly so professionally they'd put the pros to shame. Point being, aviation takes a deep dedication, a devotion to the task not unlike a love that makes a marriage go "until death".
The life is difficult, civil or military, pay won't be what you expect, you are tested and subject to medical standards in ways no other professional is, you will be tied to a business enterprise that has vast amounts of money to provide you with a machine to use your skills. Lawyers, accountants and doctors can genuinely put out their "shingle" and earn a livelihood. As pilot, if someone won't spend millions on you, you're no more than a homeless person. Think about that.
GF
10-22-2014, 07:59 PM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: ERJ, CA
Posts: 718
I think you mentioned you are married. Are you willing to relocate for your job? If not, commuting to reserve is awful. Now, maybe you are lucky and you have a short commute, so you can be at home. I had a 1/2 continental commute to reserve and spent 6-8 days home a month, that's it. At least I was a captain at the time, so I could make decent money. As reserve FO you'll be getting 20-30K for the privilege of crashing in Boys Town. Wherever you decide to go, look VERY closely at the contract. Quicker upgrades can evaporate even quicker and no cancellation pay can mean a whole day wasted for nothing. Most regionals are run on a shoe string, and the idiocy and waste is monumental. If you are used to working with nothing but professionals, it is an eye opener to have to deal with with a ramp full of gang bangers or those that are barely trained and have barely learned English. Being type A in a type D regional world will be frustrating.
On your 4 hour sits, if you want some rest in the break room, you'll be right among them as you lounge in your broken plastic chair with half a leg missing, and enjoy your nuked Dinty Moore.
On your 4 hour sits, if you want some rest in the break room, you'll be right among them as you lounge in your broken plastic chair with half a leg missing, and enjoy your nuked Dinty Moore.
02-20-2015, 02:04 AM
#36
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2013
Posts: 102
Originally Posted by CasualObserver
Interesting thread to read as I sit here in year 15 of a cushy six-figure desk job pondering my first airline interview in a few weeks. Five miles away, a soft rain falls on my airplane. It's been a busy year for her as I've poured a good chunk of my discretionary income into her fuel tanks while crisscrossing and exploring the western US.
The vast majority of my friends are airline pilots. For years I've put up with their b1tching and whining about the problems of the profession. Yet not a single one of them expressed anything less than jubilation when I quietly announced my plans to trade pocket protector and slide rule for yoke and throttle. The truth is ANY career you undertake has its share of jerks and quirks. I have one of those jobs that causes people's (especially pilots') jaws to drop when I tell them what I do - and we have no shortage of idiots and idiocy in this profession too! Hell, I even have a window seat! (those of you who have slaved in cubicle land know what that means)
I've also been a CFI on the side for nearly a decade. For a while that appeased my flying addiction. After the market reset in 2008, instructing opportunities slowed to a trickle. I started going through aviation withdrawal and that's when I realized that I enjoyed flying so much that I'd even pay to do it. A few months later I became one of the Os in AOPA. Ever since then, the day job seems more and more like it's just a means to an end...money in the bank to go fly my airplane!
I used to joke that if I ever got laid off, rather than going on welfare I'd just go fly for a regional. Well...ahem....for the first time in over a decade my org is laying off skilled, experienced professionals. I have lots of seniority and staying power, but this might just be the chance to get out before things get worse. Machiavelli would say fortune favors those who act rather than react, so let's hope he's right.
At least I can say I'm going into this with my eyes wide open. My biggest fear is being unable to live on a starting salary that is roughly half of the starting salary in my present career was 15 years ago. All of my airline friends point to the fact fully NONE of them died of malnutrition in the course of their regional airline flying. For what I've been paying him lately, I really hope my accountant will have some suggestions too! In the meantime, if anyone's looking to pick up the lease on a low miles Genesis, PM me!
The vast majority of my friends are airline pilots. For years I've put up with their b1tching and whining about the problems of the profession. Yet not a single one of them expressed anything less than jubilation when I quietly announced my plans to trade pocket protector and slide rule for yoke and throttle. The truth is ANY career you undertake has its share of jerks and quirks. I have one of those jobs that causes people's (especially pilots') jaws to drop when I tell them what I do - and we have no shortage of idiots and idiocy in this profession too! Hell, I even have a window seat! (those of you who have slaved in cubicle land know what that means
)I've also been a CFI on the side for nearly a decade. For a while that appeased my flying addiction. After the market reset in 2008, instructing opportunities slowed to a trickle. I started going through aviation withdrawal and that's when I realized that I enjoyed flying so much that I'd even pay to do it. A few months later I became one of the Os in AOPA. Ever since then, the day job seems more and more like it's just a means to an end...money in the bank to go fly my airplane!
I used to joke that if I ever got laid off, rather than going on welfare I'd just go fly for a regional. Well...ahem....for the first time in over a decade my org is laying off skilled, experienced professionals. I have lots of seniority and staying power, but this might just be the chance to get out before things get worse. Machiavelli would say fortune favors those who act rather than react, so let's hope he's right.
At least I can say I'm going into this with my eyes wide open. My biggest fear is being unable to live on a starting salary that is roughly half of the starting salary in my present career was 15 years ago. All of my airline friends point to the fact fully NONE of them died of malnutrition in the course of their regional airline flying. For what I've been paying him lately, I really hope my accountant will have some suggestions too! In the meantime, if anyone's looking to pick up the lease on a low miles Genesis, PM me!
02-20-2015, 02:09 AM
#37
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2013
Posts: 102
Originally Posted by bedrock
I think you mentioned you are married. Are you willing to relocate for your job? If not, commuting to reserve is awful. Now, maybe you are lucky and you have a short commute, so you can be at home. I had a 1/2 continental commute to reserve and spent 6-8 days home a month, that's it. At least I was a captain at the time, so I could make decent money. As reserve FO you'll be getting 20-30K for the privilege of crashing in Boys Town. Wherever you decide to go, look VERY closely at the contract. Quicker upgrades can evaporate even quicker and no cancellation pay can mean a whole day wasted for nothing. Most regionals are run on a shoe string, and the idiocy and waste is monumental. If you are used to working with nothing but professionals, it is an eye opener to have to deal with with a ramp full of gang bangers or those that are barely trained and have barely learned English. Being type A in a type D regional world will be frustrating.
On your 4 hour sits, if you want some rest in the break room, you'll be right among them as you lounge in your broken plastic chair with half a leg missing, and enjoy your nuked Dinty Moore.
On your 4 hour sits, if you want some rest in the break room, you'll be right among them as you lounge in your broken plastic chair with half a leg missing, and enjoy your nuked Dinty Moore.
Incidentally I am Type A. How'd you know?
02-20-2015, 02:10 AM
#38
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2013
Posts: 102
Originally Posted by galaxy flyer
JamesAA,
Be careful, the choice of "fly professionally or for fun" is a false one. Loads of professionals find flying fun, loads of other professionals find flying drudgery or soul killing. Loads of "amateurs" fly haphazardly, loads of other "amateurs" fly so professionally they'd put the pros to shame. Point being, aviation takes a deep dedication, a devotion to the task not unlike a love that makes a marriage go "until death".
The life is difficult, civil or military, pay won't be what you expect, you are tested and subject to medical standards in ways no other professional is, you will be tied to a business enterprise that has vast amounts of money to provide you with a machine to use your skills. Lawyers, accountants and doctors can genuinely put out their "shingle" and earn a livelihood. As pilot, if someone won't spend millions on you, you're no more than a homeless person. Think about that.
GF
Be careful, the choice of "fly professionally or for fun" is a false one. Loads of professionals find flying fun, loads of other professionals find flying drudgery or soul killing. Loads of "amateurs" fly haphazardly, loads of other "amateurs" fly so professionally they'd put the pros to shame. Point being, aviation takes a deep dedication, a devotion to the task not unlike a love that makes a marriage go "until death".
The life is difficult, civil or military, pay won't be what you expect, you are tested and subject to medical standards in ways no other professional is, you will be tied to a business enterprise that has vast amounts of money to provide you with a machine to use your skills. Lawyers, accountants and doctors can genuinely put out their "shingle" and earn a livelihood. As pilot, if someone won't spend millions on you, you're no more than a homeless person. Think about that.
GF
02-20-2015, 02:16 AM
#39
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2013
Posts: 102
I'm working on building up my flight hours as we speak. I don't know if it will lead to a career in aviation, but if nothing else I am enjoying being up in the air again!
Meanwhile I'm applying to all sorts of non-office jobs. Interestingly enough one of them is a Maintenance I position with the city in which I reside. It pays $65k/year to basically fix basic things, trim city trees, etc. Seems absurd that this job pays nearly twice as much as what trained pilots who've spent countless hours and money building up their hours make, in some of the lower paying pilot jobs (i.e. non majors).
Meanwhile I'm applying to all sorts of non-office jobs. Interestingly enough one of them is a Maintenance I position with the city in which I reside. It pays $65k/year to basically fix basic things, trim city trees, etc. Seems absurd that this job pays nearly twice as much as what trained pilots who've spent countless hours and money building up their hours make, in some of the lower paying pilot jobs (i.e. non majors).
02-20-2015, 07:56 PM
#40
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,998
Originally Posted by JamesAA
For all you career pilots: if you had the choice to either keep your job as a pilot, or have a "day job" that pays well---not superstar great, but enough that you could afford your own 6-8 seater twin engine (prop) and just fly on your own time, wherever you like, which would you choose?
Does that count?
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