Turbine

Many thanks to the all the responses. I read a lot of good insight and realize that the king air time will not count towards the 1000 121/135 time required to upgrade to capt. at a regional. I look at my King Air PIC to moslty help when applying to Majors or other large jet operators (allegiant etc..)

Most importantly, an extra year of king air flying will allow me to save more $, which will be important if I must go to work at a regional. I would like to get on with a regional ASAP since the hiring wave is in full swing and seniority is so important. Unfortunately, I just cant afford the pay cut just yet. As soon as I am able I will apply to several regionals and see what happens. In the mean time I intend to get my logbook in shape and research what regionals may be the best fit. I intend to apply first to Allegiant and Frontier, hoping my flight time will be enough for them.

rickair7777

I wouldn't do that. Most regionals will hire you immediately these days, you get to choose unless you're bad at interviewing, in which case you'll still have several choices who hire anyone with 1500 hours.

Luv2Rotate

I hate to break it to Ya, but 1000hrs pic in a King Air won't do diddly when applying to majors or LCC's. Anything under 12,500lbs is just logbook fluff. I can't speak to Allegiant.

As for saving money. Hey, can't ever fault that choice!

Vidra

I'm definitely not here to argue that King Air PIC time is gonna get you hired at a legacy because obviously it's not. However, getting 1000 hours turbine PIC in a king air first will allow you to apply to ALL the jobs..... then the 121 SIC time will likely help round out your resume to actually get an interview (no guarantee of course).


Although Southwest/Fedex/UPS/Alaska/Hawaiian/(I see Virgin already changed their 1000 turbine PIC from a minimum requirement to a preferred requirement) aren't necessarily the # 1 choice for aspiring career pilots, would you rather have zero chance of getting on with one of those carriers until you earn your 1000 turbine PIC at a regional (3-5 years if you left now and upgraded immediately at 121 captain minimums) or at least have the opportunity to apply (although only a slight chance of actually being hired)...... especially considering that you're only a little more than 1 year away from reaching 1000 turbine PIC. I can say that I'd much rather do 2 years at a regional, then another 2 years at an LCC (or any of those companies listed above) before finally getting on with a legacy instead of 4 years at a regional (or more), and then moving onto a legacy.


Take a different approach to this:
You have two pilots who both start student training at the same time. One took your path and the other went straight to a regional at 1500 hours. Now it's interview time.....

Pilot A has 4000 hours total time, 3000 hours multi turbine (part 135 & 121 mix), and 1000 hours muti turbine PIC (part 135). Pilot A got hired at a 135 as a co-pilot with 1000 hours and upgrades to captain at 2000 hours. He then gets his 1000 multi turbine PIC and leaves for a regional with 3000 hours total time. He does another 1000 hours 121 SIC at the regional and gets an interview with 4000 hours.

Pilot B has 6000 hours total time and 4500 multi turbine SIC (part 121). This pilot chose to pursue a regional airline.

All other factors the same (age, race, gender, education, etc.) who would YOU hire?


What if the airlines really don't end up being the lifestyle you had hoped for and you decide to return to the 135/91/91K sector. You could shoot yourself in the foot by leaving prematurely before you are insurable for a decent jet captain job in the future, only having to return as an SIC once again.


I realize that this is "AIRLINE" Pilot Central forum but history will show you that most pilots working at the legacy airlines today actually got their start working at the commuters under 135 operations back when they were allowed to fly up to 30 passengers. These pilots flew aircraft such as the Beech 99 which was considered the original commuter airliner (hence why it's called the "Beech Airliner"). This aircraft is actually smaller, lighter, and has slightly less complicated systems than a King Air 200 (hell it isn't even pressurized). Of course they also flew Jetstreams, Metroliners, Beech 1900's, etc. But the point being that these aircraft were considered suitable platforms for legacy airlines to hire pilots from. The ladies and gentlemen who currently comprise the hiring boards at legacy airlines all flew this equipment and know what it's worth (or not worth).

Now to defend the Airline guys here.... back then people didn't go from a Metroliner to an Airbus A320. Rather something like a Dash 8, ATR or DC-9. But that's what happens when the scope is given away. So even though 1000 turbine PIC in a King Air is not (and will never be) competitive today against EMB170 and CRJ900 PIC time, it will likely become more competitive in 5 years--when your flight time will finally start reaching actual competitive minimums--as the pool of applicants continues to dwindle. The key though is to have the 121 SIC with your King Air 1000 turbine PIC.

USMCFLYR

What about KAs over 12,500?

Luv2Rotate

Nah, the key will still be network,network,network. I know guys with 0 PIC time getting hired at majors over check airmen and assistant chief pilots from our airline. It doesn't boil down to turbine pic or not. It boils down to applicants and whether or not they networked enough, prepped enough and had a great interview, volunteer time ect... Like I said, if you want 1000hts of pic pt6 do it. Can't hurt right? Just don't get wrapped up in whether or not it's a necessity because it isn't. The scenario you have regarding applicant A vs applicant B doesn't work. HR doesn't choose someone simply because he/she has 1000 PT6 pic time. It goes much deeper than that.
Also, your comparisons of guys going from Beech Airlner to Majors back in the day doesn't work either. Back in te day, you could be hired with no degree and in some instances no H.S. Diploma. Now a 4yr degree is heavily preferred. Times are changing and nor you or I know what it'll entail.

rickair7777

Maybe if they were 125,000Lb KAs.

NoSidNoStar

A few things:

In the 2+2 vs 4 years example you are missing at least an extra 2 years spent in 135 (wasted?)

If Fedex, Southwest, Or UPS hires, you will not leave.

Pilot B gets the job, hands down, (even without the implications that by 6000hr he will have some 121PIC, and the other fact he has made dozens of friends that now work in the company where he is interviewing) just because 121 is a more desirable experience in the 121 world.

If he makes it to a mayor, he will never want to go back 91, 91k, and most definitely never 135. Not intentionally at least, not talking furlough here. May be after age 65, in the vent he still wants to fly, he could consider a good 91k. (By then he will be to lazy for a 91)

The FBO are full of old pilots that thought they were smarter than their friends, did not go to a regional, and thought the GA experience was going to get them out of there sooner rather the later, while making the extra bucks.
It did not happen, time passed by, and they are now content, confusing events with choices. They get pretty defensive too when questioned about it. Their friends, that had their eyes on the ball, went for the regionals, are now captains in majors.
OF COURSE, there is always some exception, (whoever will post next that he/she did not want to ever be anywhere else than GA)
Whatever, the original poster did express his intention to eventually go 121. Smart move, in my opinion.


Time is of the essence, get that jet 121, FMS/glass experience ASAP
Fly more complex airspace, get expose to the public.
If you can't get the pay cut today, you won't be more ready in a year or two neither. Think what a year or two of pay will be when you retire with your longevity. What will be the difference with each year of king air? 300k? Because that is what you will lose at the end.
Doors are wide open now, don't waste anytime. Things can change any moment, and if the doors close, you are better off inside.
Apply to them all, let God sort them out. Move in base. Fly your butts off, so you won't have time to think Regional X iS better than Y.
At major level, they don't care which one you came from.
Even if you lose 4 months between initial TRAINING and IOE, You will still fly 700hr year 1. and 1000hr a year after that. That is without major efforts to fly more. Valuable time. You will only be there for a short period, you know it, I know it, they know it. So don't need to be picky, just get it done. The sooner the better.
What are you waiting for? Still there? Go apply

SayAlt

Interesting point.

I'm at a crossroad that applies to the topic in this thread, albeit my circumstances are a little different. Here are my choices right now with firm offers presently in hand (note: married, 4 yr degree, no kids)...

1. Go to XYZ regional now as an FO flying RJs (and all that implies) and definitely have to move or commute

or

2. In exchange for an 18 month contract, get a paid-for PIC type in the Emb 120 flying Part 135 int'l cargo ops as an FO making high $40s starting. Add to this a near-certain upgrade to PIC within 6 months because a) I would have the TT necessary at that point and b) the company has the need (note: upgrade would likely force a contract renewal whenever that actually happens). This is a 1,000 hrs/year job...these guys are flying their butts off and friends currently flying for the co. confirm all the above (and are why I have the opportunity to begin with). So following this path I'm looking at at least 2 years minimum to 1000 TPIC and free of contract. Bonus: I already live in base.

If the ultimate goal is to land a spot with one of the majors everyone wants to fly for, and taking into consideration my circumstances, which would you choose?

Thanks, in advance, for your thoughts.

Luv2Rotate

Choose what's best for you. Can't fault TPIC in a 120. It'll look good a resume but I can't say whether or not That alone will land you a job at the majors. There are captains with stellar records and 5000hrs+ of TPIC but no calls for interviews. Then there are the FO's with 0 TPIC and have managed to move on. Bottom line, do what you think is best.