I have a week of vacation in August and can easily make it a period of three weeks with expansion. I also have recurrent PT...can I, based on seniority, bid a slot that interferes with trips or is the company just going to give me my training on 'days off'. Just wondering if anything had changed on this with the recent bidding changes...
I looked at the CBA and see it's based on seniority but if not, it will be assigned to avoid conflicts.
I have a week of vacation in August and can easily make it a period of three weeks with expansion. I also have recurrent PT...can I, based on seniority, bid a slot that interferes with trips or is the company just going to give me my training on 'days off'. Just wondering if anything had changed on this with the recent bidding changes...
I looked at the CBA and see it's based on seniority but if not, it will be assigned to avoid conflicts.
I would like to conflict...
thanks
There are a couple of issues here; vacation and training.
Vacation: When you apply a vacation slide or expansion, the Company can not schedule you for training on a "V" day or any day inclusive of an expansion footprint. If for example you have vacation week 2 and can expand all the way to touch a trip at the end of the month, than the Company can not put training anywhere in that footprint. V days count towards min days off as well, so if you have 7 V days plus your remaining trips and training days has to = 15 or less days of work. If you protect min days off and bid training on regular "off" days then they would have to drop trips/r days to get you back to min days off.
Training: You can bid training on any day that is not a "V" day, so if you bid for training on an expansion day, that would be awarded if your seniority can hold that slot. If you bid one that touches a trip then that trip drops as CIC. I assume you are trying to find a way to do it the old fashioned way and have them remove a trip for training with pay. This is a much tougher proposition than under the last contract. When a trip drops CIC you need to put in a make up request in the view/add window to cover the difference in the pay you get for training and the dropped trip. I think it is still possible to get removed for training with pay, but only if you are able to force it with Min day off protection, at least that is the way I see it.
I do not know if this helped or not ? Good luck.
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I am trying to expedite, not drag out, our exit from 4.A.2.B, how about you?
Vacation: When you apply a vacation slide or expansion, the Company can not schedule you for training on a "V" day or any day inclusive of an expansion footprint. If for example you have vacation week 2 and can expand all the way to touch a trip at the end of the month, than the Company can not put training anywhere in that footprint. V days count towards min days off as well, so if you have 7 V days plus your remaining trips and training days has to = 15 or less days of work. If you protect min days off and bid training on regular "off" days then they would have to drop trips/r days to get you back to min days off.
Training: You can bid training on any day that is not a "V" day, so if you bid for training on an expansion day, that would be awarded if your seniority can hold that slot. If you bid one that touches a trip then that trip drops as CIC. I assume you are trying to find a way to do it the old fashioned way and have them remove a trip for training with pay. This is a much tougher proposition than under the last contract. When a trip drops CIC you need to put in a make up request in the view/add window to cover the difference in the pay you get for training and the dropped trip. I think it is still possible to get removed for training with pay, but only if you are able to force it with Min day off protection, at least that is the way I see it.
Ok, where do you read that the expansion is included...I thought that just the original 'footprint' (in my case 8 days) was protected. I can easily expand for three weeks which leaves one week of trips. I don't care so much about getting paid for the trips...I just want to do my training that week and if trips get dropped...so be it.
Also, if I can't get a training slot during that week, seniority-wise, will the company then give me a slot inside my vacation/expansion weeks?
Ok, where do you read that the expansion is included...I thought that just the original 'footprint' (in my case 8 days) was protected. I can easily expand for three weeks which leaves one week of trips. I don't care so much about getting paid for the trips...I just want to do my training that week and if trips get dropped...so be it.
Also, if I can't get a training slot during that week, seniority-wise, will the company then give me a slot inside my vacation/expansion weeks?
Your "V" days are inviolate and your "B" days are as well, as long as you don't waive them.
Ok, where do you read that the expansion is included...I thought that just the original 'footprint' (in my case 8 days) was protected. I can easily expand for three weeks which leaves one week of trips. I don't care so much about getting paid for the trips...I just want to do my training that week and if trips get dropped...so be it.
Also, if I can't get a training slot during that week, seniority-wise, will the company then give me a slot inside my vacation/expansion weeks?
Expansion IS included. I've been using that strategy for a long time.
Your "V" days are inviolate and your "B" days are as well, as long as you don't waive them.
I assume you mean 'E' days?
I don't see anywhere that I could waive an expansion day unless I actually bid a training slot during my vacation/expansion...is that correct?
Section 25C 11c.
Recurrent training bids shall be awarded by seniority, provided, however, that a pilot shall not be awarded a recurrent training session in conflict with any other known absence, (e.g., vacation period, leave of absence) or carry-out activities from the previous bid period (e.g., carry-out trip or R-days). If a pilot bids a recurrent training session in conflict with a vacation buffer, that buffer will be deemed to have been waived.
So if I only bid slots during the one week that won't be part on my expansion and can't hold it based on seniority, will I be graced or will they force training during my expansion?
Thanks for the responses...just trying to get it straight.
I don't see anywhere that I could waive an expansion day unless I actually bid a training slot during my vacation/expansion...is that correct?
Section 25C 11c.
Recurrent training bids shall be awarded by seniority, provided, however, that a pilot shall not be awarded a recurrent training session in conflict with any other known absence, (e.g., vacation period, leave of absence) or carry-out activities from the previous bid period (e.g., carry-out trip or R-days). If a pilot bids a recurrent training session in conflict with a vacation buffer, that buffer will be deemed to have been waived.
So if I only bid slots during the one week that won't be part on my expansion and can't hold it based on seniority, will I be graced or will they force training during my expansion?
Thanks for the responses...just trying to get it straight.
Correct, as long as you do not bid training over your V or E days then the Company can not put training there. They can drop trips in your other available time or put you in your grace month.
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I am trying to expedite, not drag out, our exit from 4.A.2.B, how about you?
Could be on "E", not sure. As an FO I was always bidding single departure lines and knocking the whole thing out with VAC, as a junior CAP I have only had R lines and the reserve vac days that were expanded were inviolate. Haven't used the other type of expansion since prior to '99!
If you have any trips that pay approx 8 hours, don't bid MDO protection as the company will knock that one trip out and it will most likely be enough to get you to the min days off.....resulting in your doing training for less than what the new contract pays.
I thought the improved training pay was a win for us, but, after living the contract, have to concede it to the company.....for the way it impacts R days if nothing else.
Still is a lot nicer having a shot at having training assigned on a day you want rather than only where the company wants to put it.
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