If when the company came to them and asked them be on the initial cadre, they should have told the company they would be honored to train, AS SOON AS THE COMPANY NEGOTIATED A PAY RATE WITH THE UNION. If they had done that, we would probably have the 380 rate already. But, since guys are willing to do it without a rate negotiated, and guys put it on their standing bid and will bid it next month, there is no reason for the company to pay a higher rate.
Screw it.
So since the Union is negotiating and working to get a deal (which they will) you want to blame some instructors for the lack of leverage. How about the crew force step up and not blame 10 guys for the Unions lack of leverage. NO ONE is flying the A/C yet!
How about all the AirBus Captains bid the S/O panel until we get a deal? Let me guess you got yours!
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Congratulations to DW our EX-Union leader on bidding and holding 777 Captain. :(
Unfortunately, mine is probably going to be in the right seat soon. I can't believe that you do not understand the leverage that we give up when we decide that our actions don't effect negotiations.
We will get our pay rate, but it will not be the 380 rate, and yes, blame the guys who get in bed with the company, when the union is attempting to better their pay. In my opinion, it's just like flying DP's when the Sig is trying to better our schedules. Why should the company give in when the pilots show that they are willing to fly it at widebody rates.
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If the shoe fits, sniff it......
see the "yikes"...do i have to spell it out???....the 777 should pay much more for those who want to sit in a tube for 20 hours soaking up radiation and old man farts...have at it...you couldn't pay me enough to do that kind of flying...our problem is our union!....
Last NC update I read said that 777 pay=380 pay. Or is there another issue that your managment friends have clued you in to?
Unfortunately, mine is probably going to be in the right seat soon. I can't believe that you do not understand the leverage that we give up when we decide that our actions don't effect negotiations.
We will get our pay rate, but it will not be the 380 rate, and yes, blame the guys who get in bed with the company, when the union is attempting to better their pay. In my opinion, it's just like flying DP's when the Sig is trying to better our schedules. Why should the company give in when the pilots show that they are willing to fly it at widebody rates.
You say "our" but you are after 10 guys.
My point is that no one is flying the 777 for current WB rates! When/if that happens I see your point. Give the process a chance if/when we need leverage then complain about the guys not stepping up. If the Union bogs down they'll put the word out. We are months or years from anyone flying the 777 for any pay rate.
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Congratulations to DW our EX-Union leader on bidding and holding 777 Captain. :(
The point is not flying it, it is showing the willingness to fly it. It is not just 10 guys either, unless no one bids it next month.
Its like calling a guy up who has a house for sale and saying, I'll take it, and then at closing asking how much do you want for it.
I guess if only 10 guys are flying DP's, it is ok too.
I'm not "after" anyone, just stating my opinion. You can blame the union all you want, but without pilots standing behind their actions they are powerless.
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If the shoe fits, sniff it......
Last edited by fedupbusdriver : 09-13-2008 at 09:14 PM.
It's rather naive to think that the company doesn't know that regardless of the number of folks who are actually showing the 777 in their standing bid, that most guys would just love to fly that jet, and I believe, that they'd like to fly it regardless of the pay rate. So the fact that we continue to go forward with the planned acquisition, including the spinning up of the initial training cadre, perhaps shouldn't be seen as such a negative.
The point is not flying it, it is showing the willingness to fly it. It is not just 10 guys either, unless no one bids it next month.
Its like calling a guy up who has a house for sale and saying, I'll take it, and then at closing asking how much do you want for it.
I guess if only 10 guys are flying DP's, it is ok too.
I'm not "after" anyone, just stating my opinion. You can blame the union all you want, but without pilots standing behind their actions they are powerless.
If the union Disputes flying the 777 then yes. Right now they have not, we just have a few guys/you trying to make policy for the union while sitting at home. I have never blamed the union because I/we are the union collectively. You are saying not to get ready for the 777 not the union that represents the collective body.
You might have a great bargaining idea, but you are pi$$ing in the wind with this grass roots stuff, go pitch it to the union and get them to put it out. Getting our last contract was a much bigger deal but guys kept flying extra, so you have no chance with this.
90% of the guys will have the 777 in their standing bid and there is no amount of banter that will change that. You might get 10% of the guys on APC (3% of the crew force) to think about it, but nothing will change. I agree with you "opinion" but, sell it to the union.
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Congratulations to DW our EX-Union leader on bidding and holding 777 Captain. :(
The point is not flying it, it is showing the willingness to fly it. It is not just 10 guys either, unless no one bids it next month.
Its like calling a guy up who has a house for sale and saying, I'll take it, and then at closing asking how much do you want for it.
I guess if only 10 guys are flying DP's, it is ok too.
I'm not "after" anyone, just stating my opinion. You can blame the union all you want, but without pilots standing behind their actions they are powerless.
We belong to an industry. The airline industry. That industry has certain patterns and practices.
In this case, the past practice is to base the verdict on pilots with regard to new aircraft like this: revenue service.
Might as well tell us we shouldn't let our kids have 777 cockpit posters in their room until we have a rate. They're not hauling freight in it yet either.
....
On another note: the guys I know going to 777 standards are all over 60. How are they going to give IOE / line checks on over-60 pilots?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R1200RT
If the union Disputes flying the 777 then yes. Right now they have not, .....
Wouldn't that just make more guys/gals bid it
We can't even get em to not fly disputed pairings when the union says not to - why would disputing the 777 flying prevent anyone from bidding/flying it?
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Sure, you can trust the government - just ask an Indian!
We can't even get em to not fly disputed pairings when the union says not to - why would disputing the 777 flying prevent anyone from bidding/flying it?
My point exactly
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Congratulations to DW our EX-Union leader on bidding and holding 777 Captain. :(
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