What colors my perspective is how long you are on top pay opposed to any pay prior to the top.
The IPA was disfunctional , at the EB level, as per the mediator and our Ex Marine Corp General President. The contract passed with a percentage in the 56% range.
There is a difference if you are hired in your late 20's vs. 40 or above.
I don't know what the right answer is, but the contract you guys got is friendlier toward those hired older than the past contract. I see benefits to both. In an environment with slow or non-existent upgrades, counting on pay increases due to relative seniority will not bring home the bacon over the course of a career like it used to.
Frankly, I am amazed the IPA negotiated such a junior member friendly contract. I've only heard irritation from the senior guys who feel THEIR money is being given to the juniority.
As a junior Capt myself, I am glad we got that fixed. It was an irritant to unity. Again, I am damaged because I (heresy) believe I make enough in the market, (yes it has declined) I prefer quality lifestyle over more dollars. Give me top rate medical, clean lines, B plan..... Certainly we all want more money, but I don't want to unfairly benefit over another demographic of the pilot group (Capt or F/O) since we as a union divides and I really lose then.
I was dissappointed with our givebacks though. I don't hear many Capts complain, 757 (I believe) is very senior Capt. But any crewmember can go to ANC and nearly double up on money.<g>
Poster stated at same airline, since we are talking Fedex and UPS, the airplanes are getting bigger and migrating larger. UPS smallest bird is a 757. So should a UPS 744 Capt make the same as a 75 driver?. Yes, and I personally prefer that method.
Fedex is losing it's 72's so their nexus is 757-777/MD11. So same pay rate isn't farfetched. Am a Capt, still like it. (but then I didn't chase the money by going to ANC either, so I am suspect <g>)
We gave up the opportunity to keep the smaller airplane on the property, I would prefer to see anything that moves a UPS box flown by a UPS pilot on the seniority list.
This whole 380=777 pay mess just highlights that the company will "violate" the contract, its intent, or other company propaganda ("the 777 is the replacement for the 380") when they see fit unless and the union should NOT say otherwise unless the contract says it in stone (no 777 rates in the contract. The ONLY way to get the "promised" pay rate is for the union (its members) to force the company to pay it through its (the union) action.
I guess we'll have to see what our other options are and if the crew-force will support them. However, after "our support" on the LOA votes, DP flying, and HKG bidding, I hold out NO hope. The company will dictate to us anytime they wish.
What colors my perspective is how long you are on top pay opposed to any pay prior to the top.
From what you have posted you are a retired mil coming to the airlines business and willing to accept less pay for the pilots who have spent a career so that you can sit in back and collect your retirement and a pay check.
The IPA was disfunctional , at the EB level, as per the mediator and our Ex Marine Corp General President. The contract passed with a percentage in the 56% range.
Given the time value of money I have always thought holding off the good pay till the end was stupid. Individual pilots would be better off if we were all paid the same throughout our career (with annual raises). An extra dollar to a new hire probably means a lot more than $10 does to a wide body capt. Although implementing that would certainly hose the senior bubbas. UPS seems to have a nice compromise. Fedex is better than Delta. I would love to see who we $crewed for those A380 pay rates.
I like it becasue I don't have to be bumped off multiple seats just because someone wants to fly a widebody. Some of our most senior folks were dc-8 or 727 captains when we still had them and they were happy.
And our most JUNIOR folks are flying the newest wide-body ... oh yeah, it is in ANC !
So just the opposite has happened, the most juniot get bumped on to the wide-body, which is ironic to say the least.
If we had wide-body pay, ANC would not be as junior as it is. And I actually think training events would decrease. IMHO anyway ...
As a junior Capt myself, I am glad we got that fixed. It was an irritant to unity. Again, I am damaged because I (heresy) believe I make enough in the market, (yes it has declined) I prefer quality lifestyle over more dollars. Give me top rate medical, clean lines, B plan..... Certainly we all want more money, but I don't want to unfairly benefit over another demographic of the pilot group (Capt or F/O) since we as a union divides and I really lose then.
I was dissappointed with our givebacks though. I don't hear many Capts complain, 757 (I believe) is very senior Capt. But any crewmember can go to ANC and nearly double up on money.<g>
Run the numbers.
We pay more for the medical.
The pay increases that occur annually don't pace inflation, put these two together and you have a purchasing power decrease.
Clean lines, all we did was rearrange the misery.
If you haven't noticed we are divided now, more that I have ever seen, so badly that if it doesn't change between now and the next contract we will get screwed big time.
The ANC program was so messed up that we had FO's on domestic going as MD Catains and the FAA jumping up and down about experience level to the point that we started raiding Cathay Pacific for FO'S to satify the FAA.
We pay more for the medical.
The pay increases that occur annually don't pace inflation, put these two together and you have a purchasing power decrease.
Clean lines, all we did was rearrange the misery.
If you haven't noticed we are divided now, more that I have ever seen, so badly that if it doesn't change between now and the next contract we will get screwed big time.
The ANC program was so messed up that we had FO's on domestic going as MD Catains and the FAA jumping up and down about experience level to the point that we started raiding Cathay Pacific for FO'S to satify the FAA.
UPS sounds a lot like FDX. Just replace ANC with HKG. Welcome to our world.
We pay more for the medical.
The pay increases that occur annually don't pace inflation, put these two together and you have a purchasing power decrease.
Clean lines, all we did was rearrange the misery.
If you haven't noticed we are divided now, more that I have ever seen, so badly that if it doesn't change between now and the next contract we will get screwed big time.
The ANC program was so messed up that we had FO's on domestic going as MD Catains and the FAA jumping up and down about experience level to the point that we started raiding Cathay Pacific for FO'S to satify the FAA.
I agree with everything you say except the disunity is more apathy except for a few vocal few. Reason I voted No. However, I was glad to see F/O pay go up. That is probably our only disagreement really <g> .
Sorry for thread hijack, Purpose of my original comment was to opine that Fedex pilots could find similiarity in benefits for same pay rate for 777 as a 757 driver if all were paid at MD-11 rates etc.
Given the time value of money I have always thought holding off the good pay till the end was stupid. Individual pilots would be better off if we were all paid the same throughout our career (with annual raises). An extra dollar to a new hire probably means a lot more than $10 does to a wide body capt. Although implementing that would certainly hose the senior bubbas. UPS seems to have a nice compromise. Fedex is better than Delta. I would love to see who we $crewed for those A380 pay rates.
2. If the Company introduces B737 and/or B757 aircraft, those
aircraft will be considered narrow body aircraft.
3. A-380 pay rates are as provided in Section 3.
Any questions who was screwed ?
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I am trying to expedite, not drag out, our exit from 4.A.2.B, how about you?
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