Gunter

Right now FDX pilots enjoy a good relationship with the major carriers. We appreciate it and many of us try to maximize the benefit to them. We want to reciprocate as much as possible.

But some folks like to argue a rather particular (unusual?) case to prove they are right. I hope generalizations are not made from it.....

FDXLAG

Too bad Gunter isn't a moderator he could decide what is important to talk about and what isn't.

But it seems Gunter is not happy either.

As I said in my earlier Post. I rarely offline jumpseat, when I do it is to stay within my bank. So far it has only been to get home or get to work. I would not jumpseat on an offline carrier when I had a ticket on that flight. But according to some that means that flight is off limits for how long? Day, week, month or year? As Yogi might say, what is the statue of limitations?

fedupbusdriver

I would contend that common sense would dictate it to be off limits for the duration of that pairing; but obviously, some people cannot stand the fact that there are different opinions on this issue. Personally, it does not bother me that some agree, and others do not.....

__________________
If the shoe fits, sniff it......

MajorKong

In my crappy opinion, this whole issue could be solved with a change in the contract that benefits both the pilots and the company. The deviation bank needs to be for an entire year or at least a 6 month period.

kwri10s

Here is where all you non-commuters seem to completely miss the point. Once a person decides to deviate they are canceling the ticket. At that instant the original airline is no longer getting paid for that sequence. How the pilot now gets where he/she is going is completely up to the whims of seat availability. As long as you didn't create the available seat by canceling your seat then how or on which airline you js on is pointless. Notice the Alpa rule that you quoted. "on a flight off line in which you hold a revenue ticket." That is the only rule.

If I get on an airline js I am very thankful and much more likely to spend my bank in the future trying to repay that favor on the same airline. As an off line js'er you are not bumping anyone...you are the last person to get on the plane. We have a bank that allows us to "repay" the jumpseat favors by buying tickets later on that airline.

Adlerdriver

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwri10s Here is where all you non-commuters seem to completely miss the point. Once a person decides to deviate they are canceling the ticket. At that instant the original airline is no longer getting paid for that sequence. How the pilot now gets where he/she is going is completely up to the whims of seat availability. As long as you didn't create the available seat by canceling your seat then how or on which airline you js on is pointless. Notice the Alpa rule that you quoted. "on a flight off line in which you hold a revenue ticket." That is the only rule.

Look friend, I’m not a “non-commuter” and I’ve got plenty of time commuting on lots of airlines – and not just to planet Memphis for Uncle Fred. Perhaps that’s why I don’t see this exactly the same way as some of you who might have been lucky enough to have Fedex be your first and only major airline job you chose to commute to. You’re showing your parochial, Fedex-ified attitude with the “once a person decides to deviate……. At that instant” statement. Frankly, no one from American, United, Delta, etc. is going to understand that “Fedex speak” or give a rat’s @ss about it.
The point YOU see to miss is that your interpretation of the situation, i.e.
“Once a person decides to deviate they are canceling the ticket. At that instant the original airline is no longer getting paid for that sequence.” …….is entirely YOUR interpretation and may or may not hold water with the airline you’re attempting to convince of its validity. That’s what really matters – not what you’ve convinced yourself is kosher.

I HAVE noticed the ALPA rule I quoted. It’s hardly an exhaustive rule that covers all contingencies. You seem to think that YOUR interpretation is the one that counts which is the crux of the problem here. Your interpretation of this situation carries little to no weight in the final determination – it’s up to the airline that owns the jumpseat you’d like to use. Maybe you’re an ex-Navy guy who thinks if the rule doesn’t say I can’t than I can? Don’t know. If so, I hope you’ve got some ex-Navy buds at the other airline in question. Realistically, I’d say it’s entirely likely that an airline that sees a Fedex pilot cancel a ticket from XYZ-MEM and then jumpseat from XYZ-MEM the same day is going to have a big problem with that. You’re kidding yourself if you think they’re going to buy your “instantaneous, no longer original airline, whims of seat availability” explanation. Additionally, whether they choose to offer some slack if you slip or move up your jumpseat attempt by 24 hours is not a “press to test” button I’m willing to push.

This situation lacks much of the nuances you’ve given it. An airline that sees an offline guy cancel a ticket and then jumpseat is not going to consider or care that you “repay the jumpseat favor” with your bank at some later date. They also don’t care that you’re the last person on the aircraft. That goes without saying. You’re jumpseating and the only reason you’re not in the cockpit is that there’s an unclaimed seat in the back – so by definition you’re never going to “bump anyone”.

All they have the potential to notice is that a revenue passenger from Fedex cancelled their ticket on flight #123 and then became an off-line jumpseater on flight #123. That’s going to be documented and if it’s done frequently enough, will be noticed and has significant potential to negatively affect us all. You’re just rolling the bones and hoping no one notices this – plain and simple. I’m not making this stuff up – it’s just a situation that you’ve obviously not considered too carefully. Mull it over a little and try to come at it from the airline’s perspective. Ultimately, that’s what really matters here.

MEMFO4Ever

FWIW, when I jumpseat I merely ask for the ride. I don't offer any more information nor have I been asked. Adler is taking this stuff a bit too seriously IMO. The agents don't care and the crew you are begging the ride from doesn't care either. I don't see what the problem is. "Captain, I'm trying to get to XYZ can I have a ride?" 100% of the time the answer has been yes, without follow on questions regarding my 'status'. The ALPA guideline (they can't write rules) states that I shouldn't jumpseat on a flight that I hold a ticket on. By cancelling the ticket I'm giving the airline that I'm riding on no less consideration then the other 5 airlines in the terminal that I didn't provide revenue to either. It's not difficult nor is it some kind of conspiracy.

So Adler, in your opinion, if someone has a bank when is it OK for them to offline jumpseat again? The following month? Outside the trip's deadhead window? Your position seems untenable.

__________________
Don't blame me for the LOA, I voted no. TWICE!

fdx727pilot

I'm going to have to back Adler on this. Having been at other ALPA and non-ALPA airlines, whether the Captain or gate agent care or not, the airline management will see this as a loss of revenue by abusing the jumpseat system. Passenger airlines don't really care about our "Deviation Bank." They only care about loss of revenue. He had a ticket on that airline, cancelled it, and then used a free ride to accomplish the same thing. It was not a personal trip, or a commuting trip to get from home to his base. It was in lieu of scheduled DH ticket to the same destination.

You ask how long? Well for the same city pairing, at least for the 3 days you are allowed to deviate. If R1200T had been going anywhere else but his original scheduled destination, there would be no question. But he basically cheated Jet Blue out of ticket revenue so he could get home (which was his ticketed destination) earlier. If getting home a day earlier was not worth coughing up the extra bucks for the NWA flight, he shouldn't have done it.

Just my $.02 worth, from someone who hasn't been a MEMFO4Ever.

kwri10s

Ok, so that I understand your "interpretation" of how to js and how it applies to FDX pilots. If I deviate from a flight. I can js on anyone I feel like between the same two points at any time EXCEPT the carrier I had a ticket on. Additionally, I may not js on the originally scheduled carrier between the same city pair at any time in the future as that would substitution for the original lost revenue activity.

Jake Speed

A little reminder here, not throwing stones....

As much as management would like to think otherwise, the Jumpseat belongs to the Captain.

From an old ALPA manual:

"ALPA encourages all pilots to extend the use of their jumpseats to eligible cockpit crewmembers as a professional courtesy. The Captain is, and shall always be, the final authority as to admission to the flight deck."

Key word being professional courtesy. A tounge in cheek reminder that reciprocal jumpseats were created for commuting pilots. Not for personal or pleasure use. (Can we all honestly say we've never used a jumpseat for personal/pleasure use?)

If I have a ticket on a later flight, but am able to make an earlier flight with no seat availability, as a professional courtesy, I may ask the Captain to ride the jumpseat to commute home. He is not entitled to give it to me, nor should I expect it. Will the company be upset about losing revenue, ABSOLUTELY. The jumpseat isn't about revenue, it's about professional courtesy.

Now as a professional, IMHO, if I have bank money available to buy a ticket, I will use said money. If a pilot wishes to use a jumpseat to commute home, he may use that privilege. (It's one of the few we have remaining these days.) Just remember, use it wisely.

A privilege, not a right.