OooUps, they did it again.
07-08-2010, 11:41 AM
#141
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 397
Originally Posted by Luckydawg
Soya,
You mentioned losing your job, I'm sorry to hear that. Then you mention you will be fine with your UPS stock options, I assumed that it was an inheritance, you said that you never worked here and that the shares were acquired pre-public. Either way good for you, I am glad that you will be ok. You won't get any sympathy from the bottom pilots here. Most have been through quite a lot over the last three years and don't have an inheritance or stock options to fall back on. Add up first year pay, flight engineer pay, moves from ANC and MOU pay cuts and most are walking away from this job with a financial disaster. I personally came here for the stability, not the pay.
You're a smart guy. I am sure you can see why some are upset. To bash UPS to the point they are turning over business is admittedly wrong and counterproductive. I don't like to see it either since I still at this point want a future here. However, like I said before, some will never come back and no longer have loyalties. Some will come back and have no loyalties. That was a risk that UPS took when they went down this road when they canceled the MOU and chose to furlough. I am sure the bean counters did a cost analysis on it before hand.
You mentioned losing your job, I'm sorry to hear that. Then you mention you will be fine with your UPS stock options, I assumed that it was an inheritance, you said that you never worked here and that the shares were acquired pre-public. Either way good for you, I am glad that you will be ok. You won't get any sympathy from the bottom pilots here. Most have been through quite a lot over the last three years and don't have an inheritance or stock options to fall back on. Add up first year pay, flight engineer pay, moves from ANC and MOU pay cuts and most are walking away from this job with a financial disaster. I personally came here for the stability, not the pay.
You're a smart guy. I am sure you can see why some are upset. To bash UPS to the point they are turning over business is admittedly wrong and counterproductive. I don't like to see it either since I still at this point want a future here. However, like I said before, some will never come back and no longer have loyalties. Some will come back and have no loyalties. That was a risk that UPS took when they went down this road when they canceled the MOU and chose to furlough. I am sure the bean counters did a cost analysis on it before hand.
I'm a person that it doesn't matter what I have or don't have. I am looking for a job at the same time as typing this. Finding a job is my full time job. OK Posting here is too
When I die they won't talk about the toys or money or my job I had. The only way I will be judged is by the Children I raised. Sucks that they are up north with the Grandparents for two weeks 
(thats why I have all the free time right now)I'm not looking for sympathy. Actually I'd do anything I could to help. I just disagree with the one sided bashing (that isn't without merit that is) of a company that has been in my family for so long. My family depends on it just like yours and the furloughed pilots. UPS Customers depend on it.
I feel that UPS should give the furloughed pilots especially the ones that moved to ANC financial help. Didn't the pilots that moved to ANC have to sign a 3 yr commitment to live there if UPS paid for it? Why didn't the IPA put a clause in that agreement that if a furlough took place that UPS would provide financial assistance to them for moving back to the lower 48?
I understand fully about the furloughed pilots being upset. When what happened to me went down, I was very upset. I loved my job and the rug was pulled out after 17 years of loyalty. I don't have an option of going back unless I go thru the entire rehire process again and start at the bottom. With me It wasn't my fault or the companys fault. It just is what it is and you can't give up. The anger will consume you.
Isn't the current IPA-UPS contract due to expire at the end of 2011 and amendable this year? Could the furloughs be just a part of the games that are played on both sides at negotation time? Either way there is hope for them to go back with peak, retirements, aircraft deliveries and hopefully FDX under the same NLRA rules that govern UPS.
07-08-2010, 02:55 PM
#142
...Whatever It Is!
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,680
Originally Posted by Soyathink
Isn't the current IPA-UPS contract due to expire at the end of 2011 and amendable this year?
Just sayin!
07-08-2010, 03:14 PM
#144
...Whatever It Is!
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,680
Originally Posted by Soyathink
Is UPS under RLA?
Since you like to post unsourced material, I'll post you a sourced piece, straight from IPA's website...Bargaining Under the Railway Labor Act
07-08-2010, 04:14 PM
#145
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 397
Originally Posted by MD11Fr8Dog
Surely, someone as knowledgeable as yourself should know that contracts under the RLA don't expire! :
Just sayin!
Just sayin!
So after the the contract negotiation process are exhausted under the RLA they don't expire? A person as knowledgeable as yourself care to explain ?
07-08-2010, 04:25 PM
#146
...Whatever It Is!
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,680
Originally Posted by Soyathink
They don't expire? So after the the contract negotiation process are exhausted under the RLA they don't expire? A person as knowledgable as yourself care to explain ?
So after the the contract negotiation process are exhausted under the RLA they don't expire? A person as knowledgable as yourself care to explain ?When do collective bargaining agreements expire under the RLA?
Under the RLA, agreements do not have expiration dates; instead they have amendable dates which are indicated within the agreement. IPA’s contract became amendable December 31, 2003. Until a mutually negotiated change is accepted by both parties to the agreement, the provisions of the original agreement remain in full force. This is commonly referred to as "status quo." Both the union and the company have a legal obligation to maintain the status quo until the process of the RLA has been fully exhausted.
"Status quo" is pretty much the whole point of the RLA, isn't it?! But then again, you knew that already, right?!
07-08-2010, 04:44 PM
#147
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 397
Originally Posted by MD11Fr8Dog
Under the RLA, a contract becomes amendable, it does not expire. Of course, if you had checked out the link that I posted, you would have learned that! Here, let me a help a little bit more ... When do collective bargaining agreements expire under the RLA?
When do collective bargaining agreements expire under the RLA?
Under the RLA, agreements do not have expiration dates; instead they have amendable dates which are indicated within the agreement. IPA’s contract became amendable December 31, 2003. Until a mutually negotiated change is accepted by both parties to the agreement, the provisions of the original agreement remain in full force. This is commonly referred to as "status quo." Both the union and the company have a legal obligation to maintain the status quo until the process of the RLA has been fully exhausted.
"Status quo" is pretty much the whole point of the RLA, isn't it?! But then again, you knew that already, right?!
When do collective bargaining agreements expire under the RLA?
Under the RLA, agreements do not have expiration dates; instead they have amendable dates which are indicated within the agreement. IPA’s contract became amendable December 31, 2003. Until a mutually negotiated change is accepted by both parties to the agreement, the provisions of the original agreement remain in full force. This is commonly referred to as "status quo." Both the union and the company have a legal obligation to maintain the status quo until the process of the RLA has been fully exhausted.
"Status quo" is pretty much the whole point of the RLA, isn't it?! But then again, you knew that already, right?!
Since you like to quote a union site
Unlike other industries, collective bargaining agreements under the RLA do not expire on certain dates, but remain in full force and effect until changed in accordance with the procedures of the RLA.
If, after the final 30-day status quo period has expired, a settlement has not been reached, the parties are free to resort to self-help and cannot be enjoined from doing so.
Self-help. The RLA is silent on the scope of allowable self-help available to the parties after they have exhausted the major dispute resolution procedures. However, court decisions have made clear that the scope of permissible self-help is broad, extending considerably beyond the bounds of self-help that would be permitted to employers and unions covered by the National Labor Relations Act ("NLRA"). Courts have ruled, for example, that an RLA union may strike and peacefully picket a carrier with which it has a primary dispute, engage in intermittent work stoppages ( e.g ., "selective" or "rolling strikes"), and secondarily picket other neutral RLA employers (a practice prohibited under the NLRA). For carriers, self-help includes: implementing their proposed contract changes; making a national response to defend against a selective strike that jeopardizes national bargaining, including locking out striking workers and, if the labor contract with non-striking workers permits, other workers; and replacing striking workers. The courts cannot enjoin such self-help activity.
Of course you knew that
Next
07-08-2010, 06:02 PM
#148
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,235
Originally Posted by Soyathink
Railroad Labor Act Overview
Since you like to quote a union site
Unlike other industries, collective bargaining agreements under the RLA do not expire on certain dates, but remain in full force and effect until changed in accordance with the procedures of the RLA.
If, after the final 30-day status quo period has expired, a settlement has not been reached, the parties are free to resort to self-help and cannot be enjoined from doing so.
Self-help. The RLA is silent on the scope of allowable self-help available to the parties after they have exhausted the major dispute resolution procedures. However, court decisions have made clear that the scope of permissible self-help is broad, extending considerably beyond the bounds of self-help that would be permitted to employers and unions covered by the National Labor Relations Act ("NLRA"). Courts have ruled, for example, that an RLA union may strike and peacefully picket a carrier with which it has a primary dispute, engage in intermittent work stoppages ( e.g ., "selective" or "rolling strikes"), and secondarily picket other neutral RLA employers (a practice prohibited under the NLRA). For carriers, self-help includes: implementing their proposed contract changes; making a national response to defend against a selective strike that jeopardizes national bargaining, including locking out striking workers and, if the labor contract with non-striking workers permits, other workers; and replacing striking workers. The courts cannot enjoin such self-help activity.
Of course you knew that
Next
Since you like to quote a union site
Unlike other industries, collective bargaining agreements under the RLA do not expire on certain dates, but remain in full force and effect until changed in accordance with the procedures of the RLA.
If, after the final 30-day status quo period has expired, a settlement has not been reached, the parties are free to resort to self-help and cannot be enjoined from doing so.
Self-help. The RLA is silent on the scope of allowable self-help available to the parties after they have exhausted the major dispute resolution procedures. However, court decisions have made clear that the scope of permissible self-help is broad, extending considerably beyond the bounds of self-help that would be permitted to employers and unions covered by the National Labor Relations Act ("NLRA"). Courts have ruled, for example, that an RLA union may strike and peacefully picket a carrier with which it has a primary dispute, engage in intermittent work stoppages ( e.g ., "selective" or "rolling strikes"), and secondarily picket other neutral RLA employers (a practice prohibited under the NLRA). For carriers, self-help includes: implementing their proposed contract changes; making a national response to defend against a selective strike that jeopardizes national bargaining, including locking out striking workers and, if the labor contract with non-striking workers permits, other workers; and replacing striking workers. The courts cannot enjoin such self-help activity.
Of course you knew that
Next
07-08-2010, 06:04 PM
#149
Tri-tanic operator
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Doggie
Posts: 2,382
- The parties must confer, and if they fail to resolve the dispute, either or both may invoke the services of the NMB. The NMB may also offer its services if it finds a labor emergency to exist.
- The NMB can keep the parties in mediation indefinitely, so long as it feels there is a reasonable prospect for settlement. However, if mediation fails, the NMB must endeavor to induce the parties to submit the controversy to binding arbitration, which can take place, however, only if both consent.
- The NMB can keep the parties in mediation indefinitely, so long as it feels there is a reasonable prospect for settlement. However, if mediation fails, the NMB must endeavor to induce the parties to submit the controversy to binding arbitration, which can take place, however, only if both consent.
