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-   -   Next FDX Seat Bid? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/cargo/65476-next-fdx-seat-bid.html)

fdx10 02-16-2012 07:29 PM

Next FDX Seat Bid?
 
Heard people saying possibly March or May? Just sayin, and they weren't a bus driver or van driver. Seems like we have had several people leave prior to age 65 in the last 4 months.

CloudSailor 02-16-2012 10:55 PM

Heard from someone "close to the source" it would be late May/early June. I'm sure it is subject to possible change.

We shall see soon enough.

pilot141 02-16-2012 11:51 PM

Well the hubbite's ramp across Democrat was supposed to be finished this month as well, but they recently told them to expect a March finish date.

So figure the last week of March to finish it...about three weeks of absolute chaos as everyone figures out the new more "efficient" system, and another three weeks to catch our breath...soooo

Yeah, the May time frame looks good.

KnightFlyer 02-17-2012 05:49 AM

The A300 training letter has the last full ITU class in Apr so you'd think they'd have one in time to not idle the ITU pipeline.

Hound 02-17-2012 06:46 AM

They idled it for almost two years during 4a2b, they can do it again!

Next bid will include a 727 excess for sure. I wonder what vacancies will also appear? 767? HK? ANC? They have to get some engineers trained also with new hires. Almost every FE on the current list is out the door to a new plane by September. Only the 65+ crowd (about 30) will be staying around. Seat freeze for the 727 in our future? This will be interesting to watch.

Unknown Rider 02-17-2012 06:46 AM

Message out from BM. Next bid Mar/Apr time frame. To hire 20 per month through November.

FDXLAG 02-17-2012 09:09 AM

Yeah and we lose the locker room. Where will they keep the 3 or 4 radition tags that always end up in my locker?

CloudSailor 02-17-2012 09:11 AM


Originally Posted by Unknown Rider (Post 1136634)
Message out from BM. Next bid Mar/Apr time frame. To hire 20 per month through November.

Unknown Rider,

Are you referring to the letter written by JB? I can't find anything recent from BM.

In JB's letter, it does say hiring will increase from 14/month to 20/month, through at least November. Plus, as you said, bid out in March/April with vacancies, "at a minimum" for MEM 757, CGN 757, and 777.

Nice letter, with lots of good info. Highly appreciated.

KnightFlyer 02-17-2012 09:16 AM

Do you think they will have the bid and then the 727 seat lock afterwards?

Mono15 02-17-2012 10:00 AM

My guess is the company will be creative with their posting to avoid the repeat of the DC-10 drawdown that had some people going a year without flying, but still drawing a paycheck. The last guys on the 727 may get a good deal, or not.

Unknown Rider 02-17-2012 10:50 AM


Originally Posted by CloudSailor (Post 1136746)
Unknown Rider,

Are you referring to the letter written by JB? I can't find anything recent from BM.

In JB's letter, it does say hiring will increase from 14/month to 20/month, through at least November. Plus, as you said, bid out in March/April with vacancies, "at a minimum" for MEM 757, CGN 757, and 777.

Nice letter, with lots of good info. Highly appreciated.


It's posted on the main page at PFC.

FDX28 02-17-2012 10:50 AM


Originally Posted by Hound (Post 1136633)
They idled it for almost two years during 4a2b, they can do it again!

There was nothing idle in the MD11, 777, 757 or A300 training dept. With the excesses and re-bids, training never stopped.

Unknown Rider 02-17-2012 10:55 AM


Originally Posted by CloudSailor (Post 1136746)
Unknown Rider,

Are you referring to the letter written by JB? I can't find anything recent from BM.

In JB's letter, it does say hiring will increase from 14/month to 20/month, through at least November. Plus, as you said, bid out in March/April with vacancies, "at a minimum" for MEM 757, CGN 757, and 777.

Nice letter, with lots of good info. Highly appreciated.

Oops, yeah you're right. It was JB.

CloudSailor 02-17-2012 11:04 AM

JB also answered the often-asked question of whether the 767 will be common with the 757, the 777, or both. The answer: common type rating between 757 and 767. The 767 will have 3, 15" Rockwell Collins displays.

MaydayMark 02-17-2012 11:09 AM


Originally Posted by CloudSailor (Post 1136500)
Heard from someone "close to the source" it would be late May/early June.

What year???

CloudSailor 02-17-2012 11:13 AM


Originally Posted by MaydayMark (Post 1136823)
What year???

That's right. :)

Well, so much for my post from yesterday. The letter from JB addresses the bid specifically.

FDXLAG 02-17-2012 11:16 AM


Originally Posted by CloudSailor (Post 1136827)
That's right. :)

Well, so much for my post from yesterday. The letter from JB addresses the bid specifically.

I told you guys last month bids are designed to close last week in Aril first week in May to inflict maximum damage on summer vacation plans. :)

Rock 02-17-2012 11:54 AM


Originally Posted by CloudSailor (Post 1136819)
JB also answered the often-asked question of whether the 767 will be common with the 757, the 777, or both. The answer: common type rating between 757 and 767. The 767 will have 3, 15" Rockwell Collins displays.

I'd strongly suspect future 757 cockpits will look exactly like the 767. The. Center 757 CRT screens will go first.

MaydayMark 02-17-2012 12:07 PM


Originally Posted by CloudSailor (Post 1136819)
JB also answered the often-asked question of whether the 767 will be common with the 757, the 777, or both. The answer: common type rating between 757 and 767. The 767 will have 3, 15" Rockwell Collins displays.


It's a rather informative letter from JB (VP of Flight Ops for you non-FDX types) with lots of good hiring/fleet acquisition info. I don't think it's appropriate to post here. I recommend that the poolies and wannabees get a copy from their sponsors. :D

MaxKts 02-17-2012 01:05 PM


Originally Posted by Rock (Post 1136858)
I'd strongly suspect future 757 cockpits will look exactly like the 767. The. Center 757 CRT screens will go first.

757 will keep IS&S cockpit. Management doesn't want all their eggs in one basket. If you were management and a software glitch grounded the 767 fleet, would you want the 757 to be grounded also?

Rock 02-17-2012 01:55 PM


Originally Posted by MaxKts (Post 1136890)
757 will keep IS&S cockpit. Management doesn't want all their eggs in one basket. If you were management and a software glitch grounded the 767 fleet, would you want the 757 to be grounded also?

We're talking hardware. Management likes to save money. Commonality in hardware saves money. And anyway, when was the last time an avionics software issue grounded a fleet? Not saying it hasn't happened...

MaxKts 02-17-2012 02:01 PM


Originally Posted by Rock (Post 1136912)
We're talking hardware. Management likes to save money. Commonality in hardware saves money. And anyway, when was the last time an avionics software issue grounded a fleet? Not saying it hasn't happened...

Almost happened and company doesn't want to take that chance. They feel it is worth the extra $$ to protect the system.

Don't believe me - ask JB

Rock 02-17-2012 02:27 PM


Originally Posted by MaxKts (Post 1136916)
Almost happened and company doesn't want to take that chance. They feel it is worth the extra $$ to protect the system.

Don't believe me - ask JB

I'll take your word for it. One thing I do know is that all the 75/76 hardware and software sucks. The trips are horrible. The airplanes fly like pigs. And anyone senior should bid the 777 or stay on the maddog.

frozenboxhauler 02-17-2012 04:43 PM


Originally Posted by Rock (Post 1136932)
I'll take your word for it. One thing I do know is that all the 75/76 hardware and software sucks. The trips are horrible. The airplanes fly like pigs. And anyone senior should bid the 777 or stay on the maddog.

And don't forget,...Anchorage is VERY cold and VERY far away and milk costs $5.75 a gallon! Go for the "toolbox"!

Mono15 02-17-2012 04:47 PM

New guy here. Not sure about the layout of the new 767. I would make the gear handle go the other way, or else the example of the new cockpit was supposed to be on the ground, not shown in flight.

FDXLAG 02-17-2012 04:56 PM

I am pretty sure it is a check flight cause the engines are shut down at 310 and 250 knots. Maybe it is a fuel sense thing.

MaxKts 02-17-2012 05:07 PM


Originally Posted by Mono15 (Post 1136999)
New guy here. Not sure about the layout of the new 767. I would make the gear handle go the other way, or else the example of the new cockpit was supposed to be on the ground, not shown in flight.

No - that is actually what the view looks like while the a/c is sitting on the ground :rolleyes: I heard that in the 747 cockpit you can actually see the curvature of the earth :D

A300jetflyer 02-18-2012 06:59 AM


Originally Posted by MaxKts (Post 1136890)
757 will keep IS&S cockpit. Management doesn't want all their eggs in one basket. If you were management and a software glitch grounded the 767 fleet, would you want the 757 to be grounded also?

Attended Capt's course recently...

From multiple Flt Mgmt types the 757/767 will share the same type and crews. The first 2 767s delivered will be in the Boeing "Classic" configuration. The 3rd will have the Rockwell/Collins package installed and will be used for the STC certification. Once certified the original two will be moded. All subsequent deliveries will have the Collins package.
The 757s will continue to have the IS&S package.
Two new ULDs will be introduced into the system with the 767. An LD2 for the lowers, and a new upper deck ULD like UPS uses now. Will also be used on the A300 for better cube utilization.
Next bid late March/April time frame. Hiring will continue for years to come.

magic rat 02-18-2012 07:09 AM


Originally Posted by A300jetflyer (Post 1137271)
Attended Capt's course recently...

From multiple Flt Mgmt types the 757/767 will share the same type and crews.

Same crews? Are they assuming same payrate?

This is going to be fun....

AFW_MD11 02-18-2012 03:07 PM


Originally Posted by magic rat (Post 1137278)
Same crews? Are they assuming same payrate?

This is going to be fun....

Same process we used in establishing 777 payrate

CBA Section 26.K. - referencing Section 3.

In section 3, the aircraft that currently have defined payrates are:

A-380

Wide Body:
B-777F
MD-10/11
DC-10
A-300/310

Narrow Body:
B-727
B-737
B-757

If/When the company introduces B-767, they will use the Section 26.K. process.

In other words, "they" (management) can't/aren't "assuming the same payrate." (as the 757) - even though they (JB) said in his letter that the 767 will be a "common type rating" with our 757

purpledog 02-19-2012 05:06 AM

It will pay WB when you fly the 76 and NB when you fly 75. Most likely all reserve line will be written as 75 lines and we will do nothing to stop it. The 76 will be the "widebody lite" because half your trips will be at NB pay. Hopefully we will look seriously at UPS' pay scale and go all in for one pay rate.

Purpletailed10 02-19-2012 05:19 AM

Can we take the number of 767's as a percentage of the combined 76/75 fleet and negotiate that percentage of reserve lines and vacations are paid at widebody pay?

e.g: 767's make up 15% of the combined fleet then at least 15% of the reserve lines and vacation must be paid at widebody pay.

Vacation's could be paid based on your relative seniority on the bid list and reserve paid by the line you are awarded. Normal pairings would just be paid based on the equipment flown per leg.

Could this work?

CloudSailor 02-19-2012 06:30 AM

IMO

Negotiators: shoot for the sky (i.e., SINGLE PAYRATE!!!)

:)

I heard the company offered this single payrate to ALPA just prior to 4a2b, in exchange for about $42M? (The equivalent of 3% for the year). I would give up the next 3% for a single payrate. Just my thoughts.

Popeye 02-19-2012 06:56 AM

That would depend upon the RATE!

I'd rather not contemplate a single rate just for the benefit of the mathematically challenged, in order to save the company training costs and for us to end up losing far more than 3% in the long run. But we'll get it fixed in the next contract if that happens.

MaydayMark 02-19-2012 08:56 AM


Originally Posted by Purpletailed10 (Post 1137765)
Can we take the number of 767's as a percentage of the combined 76/75 fleet and negotiate that percentage of reserve lines and vacations are paid at widebody pay?

e.g: 767's make up 15% of the combined fleet then at least 15% of the reserve lines and vacation must be paid at widebody pay.

I think I would rather see a single 757/767 combined payrate that gets paid regardless of which airplane one flies on a particular day. If 10% of the 75/76 fleet is 767's then ration the day 90% NB / 10% WB pay. Adjust the rate each year contractually. That way EVERYONE who flies the plane gets the same payrate (including RES and vacation).

FedElta 02-19-2012 10:51 AM


Originally Posted by MaydayMark (Post 1137872)
I think I would rather see a single 757/767 combined payrate that gets paid regardless of which airplane one flies on a particular day. If 10% of the 75/76 fleet is 767's then ration the day 90% NB / 10% WB pay. Adjust the rate each year contractually. That way EVERYONE who flies the plane gets the same payrate (including RES and vacation).

Mark,

Don't sell yourself short. The company saves beaucoup bucks with a common fleet. Training costs, recurrent footprint, re-gauge a segment at short notice, etc. A common wide-body rate for all 75/76 activities is a small price for handing that plum to the company.

YMMV,
BG

Pakagecheck 02-19-2012 11:01 AM


Originally Posted by CloudSailor (Post 1137793)
IMO

Negotiators: shoot for the sky (i.e., SINGLE PAYRATE!!!)

:)

I heard the company offered this single payrate to ALPA just prior to 4a2b, in exchange for about $42M? (The equivalent of 3% for the year). I would give up the next 3% for a single payrate. Just my thoughts.

Do you mean give up a 3% pay rate across the board for a single 75/76 pay rate? or give up the 3% for a single pay rate among the fleet?

MD11HOG 02-19-2012 11:10 AM

Look for the Fedex pilots to make another great stand and our union to beat the company in contractual language.

Skimmology 02-19-2012 11:11 AM

Fedelta knows what he is talking about. No need to give up anything!

FamilyATM 02-19-2012 12:42 PM

Why would the company go single pay rate for 15 767 a/c over the next 5 years? They will have 71 757's and a handful of 727's, so maybe now 500 crewmembers on 80 narrow body aircraft that would now get wide body rate to cover re-gauging 75 to 76 flights? I think you would have to do a hell of a lot of re-gauging to make that math work with 15 76's. Training cost, common type after initial or transitition training on either so you change from 76 to 75 or the other way then 3 or 4 days of differences training and you are out the door and to the line. Recurrent is the same footprint for every a/c so where is the savings there? I think we have bigger issues this next contract; retirement, scheduling, deadheading, keeping vacation and just normal pay raise! This appears to me as classic misdirection by the company. We will be negotiating against ourselves over single payrate. It is not an industry standard. You all are getting worked up over 15 a/c that are suppose to be delivered in the next 5 years. Run the 76 seperate, keep wide body/ narrow body and don't let them merge the bid packs. Keep your eye on retirement, scheduling, FDA's and normal pay raise in the next contract and when they have 30 or 40 76's and feeling some pain of re-gauging or training or whatever, then we will be in a position to negotiate with them.


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