4 ABX 767's going out for bid
08-28-2014, 06:40 PM
#263
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: MD-11 Captain
Posts: 4,304
08-28-2014, 11:00 PM
#264
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 400
Originally Posted by Midway
Ok Ludicrous; some factual evidence.
Each time a bid has gone out for 767 work it has gone to Atlas, even before Atlas had a 767 certificate.
Abx pilots did fund a war chest for future necessity. 1224 wanted control of that money. It has been in dispute and I do not know where it stands now. But, an attempt was made to get control of the money by leadership that had no financial assets vested in it.
From the 1224 correspondence: “DHL won no lower costs on this contract off the backs of the pilots.”
This is misleading. DHL will have new hires at the bottom of the Atlas list flying the same work previously flown by more senior Abx pilots (Atlas union brethren as you put it). That lowers cost for somebody- ultimately DHL.
The Southern deal was signed off by the 1224 president. I still do not know the reasoning behind it.
From the 1224 correspondence: the next, least-worst option for preserving pilot work rules and pay was to have them flown by Atlas”
This statement is fact, and in my opinion illuminating in the ultimate goal for Atlas.
My post was to highlight the fact that although Abx and Atlas reside in the same union, Abx pilots should be concluding some kind of altruism is going on here with the rhetoric of solidarity and preferential hiring 1224 leadership is trumpeting.
Look at the facts.
Each time a bid has gone out for 767 work it has gone to Atlas, even before Atlas had a 767 certificate.
Abx pilots did fund a war chest for future necessity. 1224 wanted control of that money. It has been in dispute and I do not know where it stands now. But, an attempt was made to get control of the money by leadership that had no financial assets vested in it.
From the 1224 correspondence: “DHL won no lower costs on this contract off the backs of the pilots.”
This is misleading. DHL will have new hires at the bottom of the Atlas list flying the same work previously flown by more senior Abx pilots (Atlas union brethren as you put it). That lowers cost for somebody- ultimately DHL.
The Southern deal was signed off by the 1224 president. I still do not know the reasoning behind it.
From the 1224 correspondence: the next, least-worst option for preserving pilot work rules and pay was to have them flown by Atlas”
This statement is fact, and in my opinion illuminating in the ultimate goal for Atlas.
My post was to highlight the fact that although Abx and Atlas reside in the same union, Abx pilots should be concluding some kind of altruism is going on here with the rhetoric of solidarity and preferential hiring 1224 leadership is trumpeting.
Look at the facts.
08-29-2014, 02:22 AM
#265
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2012
Posts: 52
It really doesn't matter because the leadership at ABX 1224 is determined to make sure that the ABX pilot group does NOT adjust to their new surroundings and WILL continue to shrink to oblivion.
The next 13 planes are currently out for bid. News flash ***Atlas is going to get thm too***. And it's not the Atlas pilot group's fault. They don't decide ABX 1224's bargaining positions.
It's not Joe Hete's fault. He will enter into CMI agreements that can make profit. He's not going to offer to do work for DHL at a loss.
It's not DHL's fault. It doesn't matter that DHL is already profitable. They are a business and they want to increase their profits. If they can get the same thing for less money, they will.
I don't think the ABX EXCO should be allowed to use the word "negotiating" when discussing what they are doing because they aren't.
Is it a race to the bottom? ABX pilot group found themselves in a different market a few years ago when DHL pulled back from their US operation. The pilot group refused to make any adjustments to survive in that new market.
The 4 planes are gone. From what I heard last night, the 13 planes are gone.
Now, the EXCO is trying to insinuate that Atlas will be required to take the pilots along with the planes. That is pure fantasy. It is not in the contract. He is telling the pilots that because they will believe they have a safety net so they don't have to adjust or negotiate. I insist they come out with a statement from the 1224 legal department affirming the statement made twice in public that the pilots go with the planes.
The next 13 planes are currently out for bid. News flash ***Atlas is going to get thm too***. And it's not the Atlas pilot group's fault. They don't decide ABX 1224's bargaining positions.
It's not Joe Hete's fault. He will enter into CMI agreements that can make profit. He's not going to offer to do work for DHL at a loss.
It's not DHL's fault. It doesn't matter that DHL is already profitable. They are a business and they want to increase their profits. If they can get the same thing for less money, they will.
I don't think the ABX EXCO should be allowed to use the word "negotiating" when discussing what they are doing because they aren't.
Is it a race to the bottom? ABX pilot group found themselves in a different market a few years ago when DHL pulled back from their US operation. The pilot group refused to make any adjustments to survive in that new market.
The 4 planes are gone. From what I heard last night, the 13 planes are gone.
Now, the EXCO is trying to insinuate that Atlas will be required to take the pilots along with the planes. That is pure fantasy. It is not in the contract. He is telling the pilots that because they will believe they have a safety net so they don't have to adjust or negotiate. I insist they come out with a statement from the 1224 legal department affirming the statement made twice in public that the pilots go with the planes.
08-29-2014, 03:08 AM
#266
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Posts: 99
Last night, I heard Rick Z. state, in a conference call, that the 13 planes are currently out for bid and if they go to a different operator, (ie: Atlas, Kalitta or Southern), that the pilots have to go with the planes. I too would like to know what that means? How is that even possible? Longevity, seniority, pay rates?
08-29-2014, 04:36 AM
#267
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: 737 NG CAPT.
Posts: 216
Originally Posted by blogwth
Last night, I heard Rick Z. state, in a conference call, that the 13 planes are currently out for bid and if they go to a different operator, (ie: Atlas, Kalitta or Southern), that the pilots have to go with the planes. I too would like to know what that means? How is that even possible? Longevity, seniority, pay rates?
08-29-2014, 07:53 AM
#268
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 207
Dude...try and read your contract (if you're at ABX). There are actually certain circumstances that aircrew would follow aircraft. Note that I said 'some circumstances'; not all by any means. More likely than not flight crews would not follow, but when you leave your profession as line jockey and are a practicing labor lawyer...please enlighten us all.
In the interim it's all supposition and way too early to tell where the next axe falls. Maybe ABX will renew, maybe not. It is not for a lack of trying, but the union (all the unions) do not hold the cards...never have, never will.
Atlas line guys haven't done anything against ABX (nor anyone else). Union leadership....well, that's debatable and has been discussed from many different angles.
In the interim it's all supposition and way too early to tell where the next axe falls. Maybe ABX will renew, maybe not. It is not for a lack of trying, but the union (all the unions) do not hold the cards...never have, never will.
Atlas line guys haven't done anything against ABX (nor anyone else). Union leadership....well, that's debatable and has been discussed from many different angles.
08-29-2014, 08:00 AM
#269
Organizational Learning
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Directly behind the combiner
Posts: 4,948
Originally Posted by Brand X
Well....well....well.... Now your true intentions are brought to there fore. You want those new jets just for yourselves so you can upgrade quicker, at the expense of the ABX pilots.
Some might sympathize with your plight if you were to come across as a little more sympathetic to theirs. Unfortunately, you're only making it worse for yourself. Sometimes a deep breath and a short break can change your perspective and your attitude.
.
08-29-2014, 08:43 AM
#270
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2014
Posts: 160
Originally Posted by TonyC
And your true intentions are noble and altruistic, right?
Some might sympathize with your plight if you were to come across as a little more sympathetic to theirs. Unfortunately, you're only making it worse for yourself. Sometimes a deep breath and a short break can change your perspective and your attitude.
.
Some might sympathize with your plight if you were to come across as a little more sympathetic to theirs. Unfortunately, you're only making it worse for yourself. Sometimes a deep breath and a short break can change your perspective and your attitude.
.
My attitude is fine as I have no dog in this fight.
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