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FDX-15-01 Practice Bid Out

Old 05-19-2015, 04:04 PM
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Old 05-19-2015, 04:11 PM
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Big bid but few surprises. Massive F/O vacancies left on the Maddog, Bus, and 76. A little surprised there were vacancies on the 777 FO (around 15). Also surprised that HKG F/O seats were nearly filled with only 10 or so empty slots. Same with CGN. Looks like the 757/767 training bottleneck will continue for years until we get several more simulators.
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Old 05-19-2015, 04:47 PM
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Sorry for being pessimistic, but as this bid will generate at least a two year training letter with its volume and the associated lack of 757/767 simulators, I would be suprised if over 50% of this movement will ever happen as it will change with the next bid. Or even more pessimistically, possibly this bid will be cancelled after we sign a contract due to "economic factors."

I think this is a giant tee-up of the pilot group for a TA. We will all have shiny widebody jet syndrome or four bars in our eyes and therefore will pass a middling TA.

I apologize again for my attitude but management's past Trojan horses have jaded me.

This bid is the new A380 payrates.
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Old 05-19-2015, 06:16 PM
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Don't know if a 2 year training letter is a mirage, or an attempt to lock in their plans before newer, smaller bids are required in subsequent contracts. This may be an effort to do it "their way..." one last time in a big way. The psychological placebo effect of having an upgrade on paper...even 22 months away...could certainly be part of it. It could also be an attempt to provide a long term snapshot of future training so some very limited resources (i.e....767/757 training assets) could be optimized.

I think this crew force has been excessed and reorganized enough in the last eight years to not get too giddy about anything. Training sucks...not because of the lack of effort by some good instructors but because surrendering your life for months at a time when you are used to having a bit of control is miserable. Anyone who is on this training letter knows there will be change after change after change just due to the size and complexity. The fear of being excessed off the bottom of a list and the lack of control might just persuade some pilots to sit tight. I personally hope that this is my last training cycle. My IOE schedule is indicative some of the chaos going on....taking 3.5 weeks to get just the 75 part done. In the meantime, I am trying to get one daughter out of HS and off to college, move a family to HKG, get a kid set up in local schools, etc etc. I cannot over-state what a hassle it is to be on the end of a training whipsaw. Now--I'm thrilled to upgrade, like the folks I have been in class and the sim with, and I know its a good gig. But if you aren't 100% flexible, and ready to sim at 0400...the 76/75 program is going to be a challenge. A couple more sims would be great. A contract--so the LCAs will do some extra flying--would be even better. Add to that the on again/off again FDA issues and there is certainly some stress to going to training right now. I am supposed to activate in 5 weeks but do not even know yet if I am going to be done before the movers arrive. Today's FCIF reminds folks that are moving to "get on it" because movers slots fill fast, but the irony is while I have a date set I have no idea if A) I will be done or B) if not done will I be flying on those dates?

I am not advocating not swinging for the fences if you have a goal. What I am saying is be ready for a lot of changes. Trying to learn a new jet, move your family, and deal with all the company chaos is not fun. Trading your training around may help, but some of those HKG captains traded themselves into a class a year later than originally planned. That would have devastated my family--we've signed leases on our stateside house and office building, sold off vehicles, even had a daughter choose a college closer to other family instead of an out of state college all based on this pending move. You know a two year training letter is going to be a living, breathing Kraken that will writhe, bend, and twist quite a bit before it expires. If you cannot stand that kind of ride, you might not want to sign up. I am glad that I traded up, even though my original class date still missed the A300/767 hatchet. My advice is if you want to be xxx and someone wants to trade up, take the first slot you can get, because odds are your "perfect" dates is going to slide at some point anyway. If you are happy but still want a ticket to the dance "just in case", trade to go last. I think that the folks in the middle are going to be in for a wild ride as they try to mix new hires, FDAs, a sim shortage, and a shrinking fleet (the A310s and MD10s) into one training letter. If getting 140 crew members to HKG created this many changes, what can we expect from a plan to train over 1000?

Last edited by Albief15; 05-19-2015 at 06:42 PM. Reason: sched change
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Old 05-19-2015, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by md11freightdog View Post
Big bid but few surprises. Massive F/O vacancies left on the Maddog, Bus, and 76. A little surprised there were vacancies on the 777 FO (around 15). Also surprised that HKG F/O seats were nearly filled with only 10 or so empty slots. Same with CGN. Looks like the 757/767 training bottleneck will continue for years until we get several more simulators.
Unless my math is wrong, the HKG 767 was planned to be staffed at 70 in each seat, that means 19 FO slots are not filled (on this practice), which is consistent with the final results from the last bid 14-05
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Old 05-19-2015, 08:52 PM
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As a discussion item with a 2 year training letter, were I a fairly junior 75 FO, I would make my bid look like 77 50%, 76-11-Bus 40%, 77 60%, 76-11-bus 50%, 77 60%, 76-11-bus 50%, 77 70%, 76-11-bus 60%, 77 80%, 76-11-bus 70%, etc... and then stick my minimum 75 percentage in somewhere to assure QOL. You will probably still be a 75 FO 18 months from now but will be getting WB passover.

So if you would rather be a 75 FO at 20% than a WB FO at 60% that would be where you stick 75 percentage in. The way I understand it if you bid 75 at 50% and that is your reward you would not be eligible for passover pay.

I would love to see the first new hires to the BUS and 11 generate 500 passover pay awards.
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Old 05-19-2015, 09:45 PM
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Percentage bidding is for fools and day dreamers.
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Old 05-19-2015, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Timeoff2fish View Post
Sorry for being pessimistic, but as this bid will generate at least a two year training letter with its volume and the associated lack of 757/767 simulators, I would be suprised if over 50% of this movement will ever happen as it will change with the next bid. Or even more pessimistically, possibly this bid will be cancelled after we sign a contract due to "economic factors."

I think this is a giant tee-up of the pilot group for a TA. We will all have shiny widebody jet syndrome or four bars in our eyes and therefore will pass a middling TA.

I apologize again for my attitude but management's past Trojan horses have jaded me.

This bid is the new A380 payrates.
Being the cynic/realist that I am, I couldnt agree with you more.
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Old 05-20-2015, 04:33 AM
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Originally Posted by FDXLAG View Post
As a discussion item with a 2 year training letter, were I a fairly junior 75 FO, I would make my bid look like 77 50%, 76-11-Bus 40%, 77 60%, 76-11-bus 50%, 77 60%, 76-11-bus 50%, 77 70%, 76-11-bus 60%, 77 80%, 76-11-bus 70%, etc... and then stick my minimum 75 percentage in somewhere to assure QOL. You will probably still be a 75 FO 18 months from now but will be getting WB passover.

So if you would rather be a 75 FO at 20% than a WB FO at 60% that would be where you stick 75 percentage in. The way I understand it if you bid 75 at 50% and that is your reward you would not be eligible for passover pay.

I would love to see the first new hires to the BUS and 11 generate 500 passover pay awards.
I am not sure how passover pay works, but it would nice if the union would put out one of their "here's how to do this" emails covering passover pay.

I get it that you have to bid a higher seat and not be awarded it, but I don't get how percentage bidding would factor in.

I would think (I don't know) that you would have to bid a seat at 100% in order to get passover pay.

If you bid a higher paying seat at say, 70%, and they gave it to a new hire that is in the 99% range, how does that get you passover pay?
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Old 05-20-2015, 05:06 AM
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As far as new hire vacancies go, roughly...
FO 757 MEM - 55% unfilled slots
FO 300 MEM - 25%
FO 767 MEM - 25%
FO M11 Mem -20%
FO 757 EUR - 15%
FO 767 HKG - 10%
FO 767 IND - 10%


and possibly even a small handful into MD 11 ANC or 777 MEM!
This notion of having to be based overseas may not be as big a concern as previously thought!
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