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UPS Interview

Old 02-07-2016, 08:34 AM
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Default UPS Interview

Kind of a blank open ended discussion ....
hass anyone interviewed recently, junior bases and equipment, quality of life etc..

I have an interview set for April so any advise would be great!

Thanks
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Old 02-07-2016, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by mountaineerman View Post
Kind of a blank open ended discussion ....
hass anyone interviewed recently, junior bases and equipment, quality of life etc..

I have an interview set for April so any advise would be great!

Thanks
You're going to be junior for a LONG time, so figure that into your quality of life. I just passed my 9 year anniversary here, and I'm still very junior. If I made Capt at 15 years, I'd be lucky...which really means, it ain't gonna happen.

Upside is the pay and benefits.

I think the junior base right now is SDF...757 domestic or Airbus is about the same juniority.
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Old 02-07-2016, 02:02 PM
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Everything's relative. Those hired in the 05-07 timeframe have in fact endured a very long time being junior. However, while it's true that we have nowhere near the retirement numbers of United or Delta, something like 40 percent of our seniority list will retire over the next decade. Upgrade won't exactly be quick, but neither will you have to endure years at the bottom of the list. Someone hired today SHOULD have a very different experience than say an 06 hire. Of course that all assumes that we don't furlough, retire a fleet, have to deal with age 67, etc. The pay and benefits are very good but others are catching up quickly. Once we finally get a contract, you should have a much better idea of which direction we're headed compared to other airline gigs. Junior base has been SDF since hiring re-started in 14 with a handful hired into ONT and MIA.
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Old 02-07-2016, 04:58 PM
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Why is UPS interviewing?

Are they actually hiring?
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Old 02-07-2016, 05:28 PM
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I'm a little curious as to why you are looking at UPS. Do you want to live in SDF, ONT or ANC? Otherwise, you may want consider another airline/cargo hauler. I agree with previous comments that 06-07, particularly late 07, hires have not enjoyed the best progress or lifestyle. I have several friends who took an unpaid vacation for up to 4 years. So, furlough is a real possibility that would have been previously discounted. UPS peaked around 3000 before the age 65 regulation passed. Today UPS is around 2550. It is true that airlines with FEs were more impacted than those without and I know that 3 types were retired in a few years, but UPS has shrunk. It will be a dozen or so years to see 1/2 of the list retired, but that assumes no changes to the size of the airline or increases to retirement age. It's a fact that cargo carriers deliver on time, planes, trains or trucks are equally suitable as long as it gets there when its suppose to. You nor I will tolerate a bus when we've bought an airline ticket. Cargo carriers are more likely to see service alternatives than passenger carriers.

UPS and FedEx are the only ones left with an "A" Plan, but the legacy airlines are paying healthy 401s and profit sharing in some cases. Of all of the majors UPS has a laughable first year's pay and isn't significantly different in the second year.

Take the first job you get offered, but look long and hard at the best choice; ideal city, routes and seniority progression. If you do get hired at UPS and make it to the second or third year pay, well, departing will be more difficult. If you are looking for a management job at UPS, that's a completely different set of questions. Good luck either way.

MBB
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Old 02-07-2016, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by mountaineerman View Post
..I have an interview set for April so any advise would be great!

Thanks

Just make sure you're interviewing for a line pilot position! The mangler job is so great that one of the fairly recent ûber-captains just interviewed at swa (and got turned down).
You and only you have to decide if this is the place to be but if you join the pilot ranks - come as an ipa brother or sister.

Good luck to you!
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Old 02-07-2016, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by McBoeingBus View Post
UPS has a laughable first year's pay and isn't significantly different in the second year.


MBB
All of your points are valid, but you're wrong here. Second year pay increases significantly. The APC quoted rates for UPS were accurate last time I checked. Also, don't forget that we do not have PBS and are able to conflict bid, which, along with the A plan, are what makes us a competitive choice for a potential new-hire IMO. Of course, I chose this place over the pax carriers, so my opinion may be biased.

If I were looking at coming here today, assuming I was offered a class date (big assumption), I'd accept the class, but keep my apps updated until we have a contract. A few significant contract improvements could make it well worth staying here. A sub-par agreement would make that airlineapps subscription worth it.

BL: UPS does have redeeming qualities -- A Plan, conflict bidding, no PBS, the best union in the industry, and a good group of people to fly with. Movement here is slow, but not as bleak a picture as some have painted. With a good new contract, there will be good reason to choose UPS as a place to hang your hat.
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Old 02-07-2016, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by whalesurfer View Post
Just make sure you're interviewing for a line pilot position! The mangler job is so great that one of the fairly recent ûber-captains just interviewed at swa (and got turned down).
You and only you have to decide if this is the place to be but if you join the pilot ranks - come as an ipa brother or sister.

Good luck to you!
Also, this! Do your homework and know what you're getting into before even thinking about interviewing for a management position.
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Old 02-07-2016, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by McBoeingBus View Post
I'm a little curious as to why you are looking at UPS. Do you want to live in SDF, ONT or ANC? Otherwise, you may want consider another airline/cargo hauler. I agree with previous comments that 06-07, particularly late 07, hires have not enjoyed the best progress or lifestyle. I have several friends who took an unpaid vacation for up to 4 years. So, furlough is a real possibility that would have been previously discounted. UPS peaked around 3000 before the age 65 regulation passed. Today UPS is around 2550. It is true that airlines with FEs were more impacted than those without and I know that 3 types were retired in a few years, but UPS has shrunk. It will be a dozen or so years to see 1/2 of the list retired, but that assumes no changes to the size of the airline or increases to retirement age. It's a fact that cargo carriers deliver on time, planes, trains or trucks are equally suitable as long as it gets there when its suppose to. You nor I will tolerate a bus when we've bought an airline ticket. Cargo carriers are more likely to see service alternatives than passenger carriers.

UPS and FedEx are the only ones left with an "A" Plan, but the legacy airlines are paying healthy 401s and profit sharing in some cases. Of all of the majors UPS has a laughable first year's pay and isn't significantly different in the second year.

Take the first job you get offered, but look long and hard at the best choice; ideal city, routes and seniority progression. If you do get hired at UPS and make it to the second or third year pay, well, departing will be more difficult. If you are looking for a management job at UPS, that's a completely different set of questions. Good luck either way.

MBB
Brown is currently interviewing for the pool. Rumor is that SDF is waiting on corporate to allow hiring.

Some different perspective / thoughts on MB's post:

1. A huge percentage of UPS guys commute. No reason to live in domicile though the consensus is that the QOL is better within driving distance. I have an easy / short commute and find my QOL would be marginally better, if at all, in SDF. Where I live and want to live isn't a domicile for any carrier so I'm commuting either way.

2. UPS has furloughed once. Passenger carriers, multiple times. FedEx and Emirates, zero. I think a lot of guys at brown really believed UPS when they were told it would be, "the last job they would ever have." IMO they should have known better. Either way, this is not the data you should use to assess risk for a future furlough at a given carrier.

3. The only service alternatives for ups/fedex are other operators which is limited by scope language. UPS has stronger scope language than FedEx; FedEx doesn't have management flying the line. When the demand for getting things moved over long distances in a short period of time declines then you'll see air cargo suffer.

4. UPS has 12% Bfund, FedEx 8-9%. Majors average around 16% (ballpark). UPS A fund pays $90K with 30 yrs of service, FedEx $130K. Pilots at fedex and ups are a tiny percentage of corporate costs and if the pensions were going to go away they would have after the schitt-show this industry has undergone since 2000. Profit sharing and green slips are great, in times of profit. No clear winners here. If UPS wants to attract top talent in the future they are going to have to offer improved retirement plans.

5. Current Ups first year pay is based off negotiations made in the early 2000's. I don't seem to recall anyone offering massive first year pay back then and I'm pretty sure UPS was in the ballpark of other carriers at the time. New contract SHOULD at least roughly match FedEx for first year pay, but it does legitimately suck right now so consider this aspect carefully if you are in the pool. IMO it would be a big waste of time, money, and effort to go to brown with the intention of jumping ship when your first/second choice starts calling. Second year is $148 at an 80.5 hr guarantee (per cal month). Pay starts to merge between brown and the legacies IF a guy at the legacies can get to a widebody or upgrade fast. IF the industry starts to stagnate again, advantage goes to FedEx/UPS (even under UPS's current contract). For various reasons like hours of duty, lithium batteries, UPS should pay significantly more.

6. Management pilots: very controversial at UPS. I wouldn't expect an ounce of respect if you accept that position, if that position is even around in the future...

Some additional thoughts on Brown: do your research and know what you are getting into before committing to this place. It's not a bad gig, it's just different so having the right expectations makes a world of difference. I talked with a new guy who was really thinking about bailing but never did as he would have been trading one set of pros and cons for another.

Being junior at Brown isn't that bad, currently. Those mid 2000 guys did draw the short stick in timing. Comparatively, I'm getting equal or more days off than my peers at DAL, UAL, AA, SWA flying somewhat less block hours but that's mostly due to the dynamic of the environment we operate in. Of the new hire friends who got awarded a heavy at the legacies, I'm flying way more international and flying globally. For that, UPS and FedEx are worth consideration (if you value long haul international), as you just won't see the same kinds of flying at the U.S. Pax carriers. We are seeing our first displacement bid where a few guys are going to get shuffled and that is the real downside of juniority at Brown. But, it's really a practical problem of stagnation. Some guys have held lines since day 1 and some guys have barely flown on reserve; it's fleet and base dependent like anywhere else. Conflict bidding is awesome but not something the junior can enjoy very often.

The downsides of UPS are the night flying, uncontainable cargo fires, upgrade times (if that's really important to you), and the culture. If UPS had a decent culture this would be a phenomenal job (realistically, assuming we see some much needed contract improvements). But they don't and probably never will so again, do your research. There is also very strong likelyhood of a future strike if UPS doesn't agree to a good contract as I doubt the guys will settle for anything less so consider that as well.

Last edited by FTFF; 02-07-2016 at 10:18 PM. Reason: Over optimism
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Old 02-08-2016, 01:20 AM
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[QUOTE=Tanker-driver;2064695]All of your points are valid, but you're wrong here. Second year pay increases significantly.

My mistake, I wasn't clear. The second year pay isn't significantly different from other major carriers.

Another point was brought up about the night schedules. That can have a significant impact on your home life if you have kids. If they are out of the house, it's less of an impact.

Finally, the management style at UPS appears to promote a very vertical hierarchy. If you have an opportunity to chat with your driver or a pilot one of the first things they will tell you is great pay. Given a few minutes they will chat about a less than collaborative work environment.
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