UPS mins
02-10-2016, 02:13 AM
#11
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Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 4,666
Originally Posted by whalesurfer
I agree with you overall, the last sentence however is a gross oversimplification. In almost all cases where FAA uses any kind of enforcement action (license suspension, revocation, letter of warning, etc.) BOTH pilots get violated. It's extremely rare nowadays for them to only go after the captain. Crew responsibility.
Even if he might be in the bunk.
Or, to say it another way, it's still the CA's a$$, even though he may not be present. It's still the CA that signed the paperwork. It's still the CA that has the final authority over the safety of the flight. NOT an FO/RFO/IRO.
02-10-2016, 08:35 AM
#13
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Position: Right
Posts: 101
Originally Posted by easyflying
You can log your cruise captain time as PICUS (pic under supervision) it means nothing in the US but in the rest of the planet it counts towards PIC.
02-10-2016, 04:30 PM
#14
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Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,930
Originally Posted by Froggy
While I don't really agree in principle, there's not a whole lot I can do about it at this point. Thanks for the thoughtful responses.
02-10-2016, 05:26 PM
#15
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,837
Originally Posted by Riverside
Do you get captain pay when you are at the controls and the captain is in the back? But in the FAA eyes PIC is the name who is on the release. So you're still SIC regardless.
The FAA allows you to log PIC during sole manipulator; so log it if you wish - it might come in handy somewhere - but don't use it to make PIC minimums when applying to most airlines.
02-10-2016, 06:22 PM
#16
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Joined APC: Oct 2014
Position: Retired from APC.
Posts: 507
Originally Posted by Froggy
Will they still not let you past the first page of you don't have 1000PIC? I have around 800 with 4500+Total with international heavy time and a 4 year degree . Is there anyway around the 1000?
02-11-2016, 10:38 PM
#17
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Posts: 2,930
Originally Posted by USMCFLYR
It is the airlines hiring who see PIC only as the pilot who's name is on the release - not the FAA.
The FAA allows you to log PIC during sole manipulator; so log it if you wish - it might come in handy somewhere - but don't use it to make PIC minimums when applying to most airlines.
The FAA allows you to log PIC during sole manipulator; so log it if you wish - it might come in handy somewhere - but don't use it to make PIC minimums when applying to most airlines.
02-12-2016, 03:19 AM
#18
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,837
Originally Posted by Riverside
You ever looked at a release and it said PIC on it? And it has the captain name on it? Guess where that came from? Far part 121. Guess who makes the rules? The FAA.
Are you saying that the FAA doesn't allow someone to log PIC time if they are the sole manipulator of the controls and not listed as the PIC?
As far as airline hiring goes - the FAA does not make the rules.
They chose what they want and they view logging of time.
Hour adjustments for military pilots being a good example.
02-12-2016, 01:45 PM
#19
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Joined APC: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,339
Originally Posted by USMCFLYR
Are you saying that the FAA doesn't allow someone to log PIC time if they are the sole manipulator of the controls and not listed as the PIC?..
So every time the captain is in the back asleep and I, as an IRO, sit in the left seat I should be logging this time as pic?? Should I ask him/her to give me the pay difference for the time he/she was asleep too? Talk about entitlement mentality.
02-12-2016, 02:22 PM
#20
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Joined APC: Jun 2014
Posts: 90
If you log the time at cruise that you are in the left seat, as pilot in command, you will not get hired at you PS or anywhere.
You can put what ever pilot in command in that spot to get to the next page on the application on the computer. When it comes time to defend the pilot in command entry, the interview will be over at you PS or any airline.
If you had to divert for what ever reason at high altitude cruise while you are in the left seat, and you did not consult the captain in the bunk in the divert, you would be terminated.
If you are sitting in the left seat at high altitude cruise and believe you retain the power of pilot in command, you are thinking wrong.
You can put what ever pilot in command in that spot to get to the next page on the application on the computer. When it comes time to defend the pilot in command entry, the interview will be over at you PS or any airline.
If you had to divert for what ever reason at high altitude cruise while you are in the left seat, and you did not consult the captain in the bunk in the divert, you would be terminated.
If you are sitting in the left seat at high altitude cruise and believe you retain the power of pilot in command, you are thinking wrong.
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