Froggy

Will they still not let you past the first page of you don't have 1000PIC? I have around 800 with 4500+Total with international heavy time and a 4 year degree . Is there anyway around the 1000?

Swedish Blender

Sorry, no.

Froggy

Do they let you count PIC time from when you sign to be the PIC in cruise?

Swedish Blender

Not exactly sure what you mean to "sign" to be PIC in cruise. Do you sign the logbook in cruise? Get a re-release/dispatch in cruise naming you PIC? If you mean you sign into the trip as a relief officer, sole manipulator does not count for UPS, nor does it count for most airlines.

Unless your name is on the flight release as PIC, time spent occupying the left seat in cruise does not count.

Froggy

When the PIC takes a break he designates one of the other two to act as PIC in his/her absence . You are supposed to sign by your name and write down the time that you took over as PIC for that portion of the flight. I know it's a technicality but you are signing and agreeing to be the PIC at that point

Waldorf

Who does this? I've only heard of one PIC. When I interviewed at United they were very specific about not logging PIC as a relief Captain, I know you are asking about UPS. If you are an FO serving as a relief FO, I don't know how you would count that as PIC since you aren't a Captain. I think the more important thing about the PIC time is whether you were the Captain signing for the flight and making decisions.

Froggy

By that logic, you would be the one making the decisions seeing as you are now designated as the PIC since the Captain is on rest and most likely sleeping. The whole point is that you would now be making the decisions so you don't have to go back and ask what they want to do . Furthermore, since you have a type rating in said plane then for that portion of the flight it would stand to reason that you should be able to log that time.
In full disclosure, I don't know what the FARs have to say on this. I'm only wondering if I can log it to boost my PIC from 800 to 1000

John Carr

When you interviewed at UAL, did they ask you about Type I deice fluid?

It's been beat.....to....death.....in APC land as far what you can log legally.

However, what you can log legally, and what (insert airline here) counts as PIC/"command time" is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. Short/easy answer, if you didn't sign for the airplane/listed on the release as PIC, it's NOT PIC to the airlines. PERIOD, END OF STORY.

And the reality is, if ANYTHING goes wrong, it's STILL the CA's a$$.

SaltyDog

Froggy
Interesting questions:
Three references:
From UPS job page https://www.jobs-ups.com/job/louisvi...r/1187/1238146
they define PIC as per Regulation

Pilot in Command, per 14 CFR 1.1, means the person who:
•Has final authority and responsibility for the operation and safety of the flight
•Has been designated as the pilot in command before or during the flight
•Holds the appropriate category, class, and type rating, if appropriate, for the conduct of the flight

The 14 CFR 1.1 lists the 3 elements as 1,2,3 FAR Part 1 Sec. 1.1 effective as of 12/21/2015

Finally, third reference:You are asking about the second point when more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is conducted for logging PIC.
Here is one FAA legal discussion on this matter:
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/...rpretation.pdf

Just ensure you can defend your position if choose to include said time as a rated pilot in an interview. Guessing the interviewers will go simple intepretation.
SD

whalesurfer

I agree with you overall, the last sentence however is a gross oversimplification. In almost all cases where FAA uses any kind of enforcement action (license suspension, revocation, letter of warning, etc.) BOTH pilots get violated. It's extremely rare nowadays for them to only go after the captain. Crew responsibility.

As far as the PIC question - 'if you have to think about it, the recruiter will too.'
They seldom, IF EVER, take the more generous interpretation. I remember Buzz T. in particular was very hard core about PIC time. He's no longer with us :-( but I'd imagine the HR hasn't changed their views on that..