The other Atlas thread
08-26-2014, 05:04 AM
#71
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: On My A$$
Posts: 241
Originally Posted by Whaledriver
"the way the union seems to not totally be on labors side"
Cargo, the problem is, someone floats this stuff without any understanding of what goes on day to day with the guys that have given up a BIG chunk of their life to protect this CBA, Stewards, ExCo and the many volunteers that have their phones ring on an hourly basis. If there are specific cases you can provide, or maybe even one, I bet there is an indepth story behind it where the CM messed up or probably didn't like the way the contract is interpreted. The union has lawyers that tell this and all ExCo's stuff they can and can't do, and sometimes that ****es off the rank and file.
I find it funny and kinda sad, the line guys say the ExCo is not taking care of them and lately the instructions are crying the blues about the ExCo not watching our for their interest. So who's right? Who the ExCo looking out for? This ExCo is both line guys and instructors.
Normally when I challenge a statement like about, I get a mumble and they walk off or change the subject. Very few facts out there. They are just repeating what they hear in the *****ing sessions at the breakfast tables. And it's only going to get worst. Some of the stupid rumors being floated by the ExCo wannabe's is sad!!!!
Cargo, the problem is, someone floats this stuff without any understanding of what goes on day to day with the guys that have given up a BIG chunk of their life to protect this CBA, Stewards, ExCo and the many volunteers that have their phones ring on an hourly basis. If there are specific cases you can provide, or maybe even one, I bet there is an indepth story behind it where the CM messed up or probably didn't like the way the contract is interpreted. The union has lawyers that tell this and all ExCo's stuff they can and can't do, and sometimes that ****es off the rank and file.
I find it funny and kinda sad, the line guys say the ExCo is not taking care of them and lately the instructions are crying the blues about the ExCo not watching our for their interest. So who's right? Who the ExCo looking out for? This ExCo is both line guys and instructors.
Normally when I challenge a statement like about, I get a mumble and they walk off or change the subject. Very few facts out there. They are just repeating what they hear in the *****ing sessions at the breakfast tables. And it's only going to get worst. Some of the stupid rumors being floated by the ExCo wannabe's is sad!!!!
Here again is the not reading to understand. I never mentioned the Exco, I believe many have, but I do not believe that I ever have. Te Exco is one difficult job, could you imagine trying to make me happy............
On the other hand what I was getting at was, as I have said before, is WE are the union, the Exco is the Leadership and the contract is what it is. Just live buy it. I must agree with Captain McCabe (Exco Member, I know get off the floor) that it is up to us.
Example-in training a while back, with R1 after training, scheduling tries to assign a trip (twice) I say NO because I am on R1 and Miami is not a 'mutually agreeable' location for a reserve period that has not started yet. I have the discussion in the classroom while others are listening. Explain to them the verbage in the contract, everyone agrees and thanks me. Then 15 minutes later someone in the EXACT same R1 situation as me accepts the frigin trip I just turned down because he did not want to travel 'all' the way home (LAX) and then potentially come back to MIA for the trip. REALLY!!!!!!!
Live the contract it is not about today!!!!
Cargo
Cargew
08-26-2014, 05:06 AM
#72
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: On My A$$
Posts: 241
Originally Posted by worldfr8dog
What we have now is an amalgamated contract that did not require ratification by the membership and is source of much frustration. The language in that contract could only be made as strong as the membership was in support of its union and in the days of Cato, it was not very strong at all thus the weakness of the contract. We must learn from the past and NOT let this happen again. This time it will be a section 6 negotiation ratifiable by the membership. Once again, this contract will only be as strong as the unity, solidarity and participation shown by this membership, it must be solid! It is the membership that empowers the ExCo, we can largely blame ourselves if they do not succeed.
amalgamated Been waiting all day to use that word! hahahaha
The contract is what it is. First everyone educate yourself on it then live by it, PLEASE!!!!
Cargo
08-26-2014, 05:09 AM
#73
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: On My A$$
Posts: 241
Originally Posted by Whaledriver
BTW, I was not badmouthing the candidates for ExCo with my "ExCo wannabes", just tagging onto Cargo's name. I am proud and it is a sign of a healthy union, that so many are interested in stepping up.
I am a little disappointed in some of the tactics, but that is politics these days.
I am a little disappointed in some of the tactics, but that is politics these days.
It's funny even the current Exco members, if they choose to run, will be Exco wannabes.
Cargo
08-26-2014, 11:52 AM
#74
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Capt
Posts: 3,215
The contract is generic, and doesn't cover all of the individual nuances of the situation. So , sometimes, the contract screws over a particular pilot in a particular situation. I do not think it is wrong if someone wants to avoid being screwed by the contract, as long as it doesn't negatively affect someone else.
In one situation, I lost about 3 hours of sleep because the company said what I wanted violated the contract...they said the union pressured them to not allow individuals to get what I asked for from the company. What I wanted did not negatively affect anyone. It would have positively affected me, by allowing me three more hours of sleep. It also would have saved the company money. But, it was against the contract, so I got screwed.
I don't want the company screwing me. I don't want the union screwing me, and I don't want the contract screwing me. Any of the above three happens, and I am not happy about that specific situation.
I realize that many people disagree with me, and that the contract needs to be followed all the time, regardless of who it affects negatively. I don't agree.
I would add a clause in the contract that it does not have to be followed, if the exemption is requested by the crewmember, and if the exemption will not cause harm to the company or to other pilots. I do realize that some/many out there don't agree with me.
In one situation, I lost about 3 hours of sleep because the company said what I wanted violated the contract...they said the union pressured them to not allow individuals to get what I asked for from the company. What I wanted did not negatively affect anyone. It would have positively affected me, by allowing me three more hours of sleep. It also would have saved the company money. But, it was against the contract, so I got screwed.
I don't want the company screwing me. I don't want the union screwing me, and I don't want the contract screwing me. Any of the above three happens, and I am not happy about that specific situation.
I realize that many people disagree with me, and that the contract needs to be followed all the time, regardless of who it affects negatively. I don't agree.
I would add a clause in the contract that it does not have to be followed, if the exemption is requested by the crewmember, and if the exemption will not cause harm to the company or to other pilots. I do realize that some/many out there don't agree with me.
08-26-2014, 01:25 PM
#75
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: On My A$$
Posts: 241
Originally Posted by atpcliff
The contract is generic, and doesn't cover all of the individual nuances of the situation. So , sometimes, the contract screws over a particular pilot in a particular situation. I do not think it is wrong if someone wants to avoid being screwed by the contract, as long as it doesn't negatively affect someone else.
In one situation, I lost about 3 hours of sleep because the company said what I wanted violated the contract...they said the union pressured them to not allow individuals to get what I asked for from the company. What I wanted did not negatively affect anyone. It would have positively affected me, by allowing me three more hours of sleep. It also would have saved the company money. But, it was against the contract, so I got screwed.
I don't want the company screwing me. I don't want the union screwing me, and I don't want the contract screwing me. Any of the above three happens, and I am not happy about that specific situation.
I realize that many people disagree with me, and that the contract needs to be followed all the time, regardless of who it affects negatively. I don't agree.
I would add a clause in the contract that it does not have to be followed, if the exemption is requested by the crewmember, and if the exemption will not cause harm to the company or to other pilots. I do realize that some/many out there don't agree with me.
In one situation, I lost about 3 hours of sleep because the company said what I wanted violated the contract...they said the union pressured them to not allow individuals to get what I asked for from the company. What I wanted did not negatively affect anyone. It would have positively affected me, by allowing me three more hours of sleep. It also would have saved the company money. But, it was against the contract, so I got screwed.
I don't want the company screwing me. I don't want the union screwing me, and I don't want the contract screwing me. Any of the above three happens, and I am not happy about that specific situation.
I realize that many people disagree with me, and that the contract needs to be followed all the time, regardless of who it affects negatively. I don't agree.
I would add a clause in the contract that it does not have to be followed, if the exemption is requested by the crewmember, and if the exemption will not cause harm to the company or to other pilots. I do realize that some/many out there don't agree with me.
I don't agree with you but that is ok. The way I look at it is that every move we make is data point for the next negotiations. Example would be R1 after training, the 2 schedulers I talked to says 'everyone does it' and I believe that will come back to haunt us, if and when we get to a Sec. 6.
As far as disagreeing, that is what this country was founded on, it is ok if my opinion is different than yours!
The one thing I must ask is to vote in the upcoming elections!
Cheers,
Cargo
08-26-2014, 01:53 PM
#76
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2012
Position: FO
Posts: 37
Originally Posted by atpcliff
The contract is generic, and doesn't cover all of the individual nuances of the situation. So , sometimes, the contract screws over a particular pilot in a particular situation. I do not think it is wrong if someone wants to avoid being screwed by the contract, as long as it doesn't negatively affect someone else.
In one situation, I lost about 3 hours of sleep because the company said what I wanted violated the contract...they said the union pressured them to not allow individuals to get what I asked for from the company. What I wanted did not negatively affect anyone. It would have positively affected me, by allowing me three more hours of sleep. It also would have saved the company money. But, it was against the contract, so I got screwed.
I don't want the company screwing me. I don't want the union screwing me, and I don't want the contract screwing me. Any of the above three happens, and I am not happy about that specific situation.
I realize that many people disagree with me, and that the contract needs to be followed all the time, regardless of who it affects negatively. I don't agree.
I would add a clause in the contract that it does not have to be followed, if the exemption is requested by the crewmember, and if the exemption will not cause harm to the company or to other pilots. I do realize that some/many out there don't agree with me.
In one situation, I lost about 3 hours of sleep because the company said what I wanted violated the contract...they said the union pressured them to not allow individuals to get what I asked for from the company. What I wanted did not negatively affect anyone. It would have positively affected me, by allowing me three more hours of sleep. It also would have saved the company money. But, it was against the contract, so I got screwed.
I don't want the company screwing me. I don't want the union screwing me, and I don't want the contract screwing me. Any of the above three happens, and I am not happy about that specific situation.
I realize that many people disagree with me, and that the contract needs to be followed all the time, regardless of who it affects negatively. I don't agree.
I would add a clause in the contract that it does not have to be followed, if the exemption is requested by the crewmember, and if the exemption will not cause harm to the company or to other pilots. I do realize that some/many out there don't agree with me.
08-26-2014, 03:53 PM
#77
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 548
I agree that the contract must be followed, however, it does not have to be written in stone. ex. waive rest to go home. The hot button issues that pilots request often can be written so an individual pilot could waive an otherwise iron clad CBA requirement.
But, OTOH, it must be in the CBA to prevent "past practice" as mentioned above from painting everyone into your corner.
But, OTOH, it must be in the CBA to prevent "past practice" as mentioned above from painting everyone into your corner.
08-26-2014, 06:28 PM
#78
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2012
Position: FO
Posts: 37
Originally Posted by Whale Driver
I agree that the contract must be followed, however, it does not have to be written in stone. ex. waive rest to go home. The hot button issues that pilots request often can be written so an individual pilot could waive an otherwise iron clad CBA requirement.
But, OTOH, it must be in the CBA to prevent "past practice" as mentioned above from painting everyone into your corner.
But, OTOH, it must be in the CBA to prevent "past practice" as mentioned above from painting everyone into your corner.
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