International travel questions
11-03-2010, 04:23 AM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
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Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: EVIL PRIVATE JET
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International travel questions
As our company grows and our passengers are talking more about the possibility of going to Europe and South America, we are looking into more capeable aircraft.
One question I have that I am getting different answers on is inertial nav systems. Some of the planes we have looked at it is standard equip. some planes are not. I know people fly Citations across the ocean without Inertial nav all the time and one MFG demo pilot told me its not needed. Whats the opinoin of operators here who do International ops.
The planes I am talking about are the Hawker 4000, The Challenger 300 and the G250.
One question I have that I am getting different answers on is inertial nav systems. Some of the planes we have looked at it is standard equip. some planes are not. I know people fly Citations across the ocean without Inertial nav all the time and one MFG demo pilot told me its not needed. Whats the opinoin of operators here who do International ops.
The planes I am talking about are the Hawker 4000, The Challenger 300 and the G250.
11-03-2010, 08:09 AM
#3
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 16
There are several things to think about for overwater ops.
An IRS should be high on the list as if GPS or an AHRS fails you are done and you will have no MEL relief. The IRS can supply both position and attitude indications in most equipped planes.
An APU that works at altitude for backup power generation is also a must. Several of those aircraft mentioned do not have inflight or very limited altitude inflight use.
Also to be considered is baggage compartment fire warning and suppression.
Does it have a single or dual HF radio/Selcal?
Remember the OEM will tell you anything to sell a plane. Most importantly range and payloed is never as advertised.
An IRS should be high on the list as if GPS or an AHRS fails you are done and you will have no MEL relief. The IRS can supply both position and attitude indications in most equipped planes.
An APU that works at altitude for backup power generation is also a must. Several of those aircraft mentioned do not have inflight or very limited altitude inflight use.
Also to be considered is baggage compartment fire warning and suppression.
Does it have a single or dual HF radio/Selcal?
Remember the OEM will tell you anything to sell a plane. Most importantly range and payloed is never as advertised.
11-03-2010, 06:12 PM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
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Posts: 159
I agree with 1wire.
If you are going to do a lot of intl ops, then an INS as a backup is a *must*.
Dual HF is a *must*.
APU is a *must*.
The three planes you are talking about, here is a quick breakdown-- and even though I used to demo gulfstream, I have *zero* loyalty to any manufacturer.
The hawker 4000-- old plane. Even though it is brand new, it is a 15 year old design. Product support and cost per hour are lacking compared to the other two.
Challenger 300-- Great plane, but small cabin compared to the other two. Clean cockpit, good performance. Customer support is not great at all. Not as long a range as the G250.
G250-- this is the winner, hands down. Longest range at fastest cruise speed, and I have heard that it is exceeding published numbers in testing. Best avionics suite, best options (HUD, EVS, Autothrottles), and by far the best cabin. Not to mention the best customer support.
Again, I am not getting anything out of this, and after getting laid off would love nothing more for you to buy something other than a gulfstream!! however facts are facts, and the G250 is going to blow the competition away in the super mid-size cabin aircraft.
Hope this helps..
by the way-- my company will do consulting and comparisons (a lot more detailed than this!!) for a nominal fee!
good luck!
-spike
If you are going to do a lot of intl ops, then an INS as a backup is a *must*.
Dual HF is a *must*.
APU is a *must*.
The three planes you are talking about, here is a quick breakdown-- and even though I used to demo gulfstream, I have *zero* loyalty to any manufacturer.
The hawker 4000-- old plane. Even though it is brand new, it is a 15 year old design. Product support and cost per hour are lacking compared to the other two.
Challenger 300-- Great plane, but small cabin compared to the other two. Clean cockpit, good performance. Customer support is not great at all. Not as long a range as the G250.
G250-- this is the winner, hands down. Longest range at fastest cruise speed, and I have heard that it is exceeding published numbers in testing. Best avionics suite, best options (HUD, EVS, Autothrottles), and by far the best cabin. Not to mention the best customer support.
Again, I am not getting anything out of this, and after getting laid off would love nothing more for you to buy something other than a gulfstream!! however facts are facts, and the G250 is going to blow the competition away in the super mid-size cabin aircraft.
Hope this helps..
by the way-- my company will do consulting and comparisons (a lot more detailed than this!!) for a nominal fee!
good luck!
-spike
11-04-2010, 03:25 AM
#5
The NeverEnding Story
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,504
Originally Posted by grimmdj
New Sovereigns can get IRU's and Autothrottles as a option for those ocean flights.
I would have thought Cessna would have announced the availability of IRU & AT as an option in the Sovereign; Gulfstream marketed both quite publicly for the G150.
11-04-2010, 03:26 AM
#6
The NeverEnding Story
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,504
Also, the Challenger 300 has a larger cabin than the H4000...and the G250 ain't available yet and probably won't be for at least a couple years though yes, as the newest super-mid it will have the best performance.
11-04-2010, 05:02 AM
#7
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Posts: 159
First 250 delivery is scheduled for end of next year-- and they have not been selling a lot! When I got laid off the number was 12... (see, no loyalty anymore as that number was 'classified' when I was there!! )
You would get it early 2012 I would guess, and that is not a bad wait for a biz-jet, considering in the height of the market it would have been at least 2 years.
My mistake, the CL300 is 100 cubic feet bigger than the H4000- 860 to 762 respectively. Also, the H4000 and CL300 are comparable in price, and the G250 is significantly more than the others... so it *should* be better!!
-spike
)You would get it early 2012 I would guess, and that is not a bad wait for a biz-jet, considering in the height of the market it would have been at least 2 years.
My mistake, the CL300 is 100 cubic feet bigger than the H4000- 860 to 762 respectively. Also, the H4000 and CL300 are comparable in price, and the G250 is significantly more than the others... so it *should* be better!!
-spike
11-04-2010, 10:30 AM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
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Posts: 159
Originally Posted by Tgaug6300
What price point are you looking at is the next question.
If not, then they are looking at the wrong aircraft!
11-05-2010, 05:29 PM
#10
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Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: F/O- G-V/550
Posts: 1,163
Originally Posted by ce650
The planes I am talking about are the Hawker 4000, The Challenger 300 and the G250.
Hell, I'd push for the CL300. The G250 might have a better range, but as far as performance the CL300 rocks.. and convince your company to go for a livery like this one (just kidding).
Photos: Bombardier BD-100-1A10 Challenger 300 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net
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