G550/650 Salary
01-06-2012, 07:48 PM
#71
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: 320 F.O.
Posts: 1,386
Originally Posted by RJSAviator76
You tell me... 150k a year is 12.5k per month gross. Assume you're married with 2 kids, you get dinged 4k in taxes per month so your net will be around 8.5k.
Not enough to live in a nice area? Or do you have to keep up with the Joneses?
Not enough to live in a nice area? Or do you have to keep up with the Joneses?
01-06-2012, 09:13 PM
#72
Gets Weekend Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,603
Originally Posted by Climbto450
Dude i drive a prius and my wife drives a camrey we arent exactly keeping up with " the jonses" as you call it. 2500 a month for rent in HB good luck dude that will be in some transient condo/apt building in HB. You obviosly are not living in the same realty as the rest of us. 150k is okay if your spouse works. We pay about 37% in taxes because my wife and i make over 200k. We live in a little suburban home in valencia ( far stretch from your grand notion of a million dollar HB home that you think will only cost 2500 per month) and it is still more then 2500 per month. 1 kid, 401k plans, college savings, insurance, car payments, $4 per gallon gas, food, utilities. Do the math we go in debt most months. Everyone thinks that these 150k a year jobs pay too much but most of them are in in LA/NY areas and these are extremly expensive areas to live in. I will leave you with my favorite quote " you don't know what you don't know"
Secondly, I left HB in 2008, and I can assure you, even today, I'll find a nice place for $2500 or less in location that I want - not in some "transient housing." Just a quick glance showed me a few townhouses in very nice location for less than $2000... Again, individual choices. Mind you, that's rent. I will not own anything in SoCal as the prices are still unreasonable. Instead, I own a house in another part of the country.
As for you going to debt most months on over 200k a year, again - individual choices. It's your choice to go into debt...
01-06-2012, 10:18 PM
#73
Gets Weekend Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,603
NowCorporate, I don't play an underpaid martyr pilot... whatever that is. I live and work abroad, and I'd put up my compensation package and lifestyle against yours any day and most likely leave you in the dust - just looking at what you pay for family insurance - 8K/year??! Just as a quick comparison - no out-of-pocket insurance costs for us - medical, dental, vision, prescription, life, loss-of-license, AD&D... all 100% paid for by my employer - far better coverage than I had at the airlines back in the US, which I'm sad to say, was still seemingly better than yours. BTW... our current medical coverage is valid worldwide and in most Western countries available through direct billing as opposed to reimbursement. But that's another discussion altogether... Maybe next time I come through NY, and we go through there fairly often, I'll treat you for a drink/lunch/dinner of your choice, and we can talk and toast in person about solving all the world problems and maybe you can explain to me what an underpaid pilot martyr is. Though I do hope you get a better medical plan though - your share of 8K/year is ridiculous! It's sad how far the US has slipped in terms of compensation for professionals... but I digress.
So it's clear that you wouldn't accept a job in SoCal for 150k a year because in your opinion, you're better than that. I hear ya - I wouldn't accept a job in the US for 150k a year - unless I had no choice. Getting taxed through the nose before I even get paid, and then getting a bill for 8k for insurance on top of that... at Fortune 5 company no less?! You can keep that...
But here's the fundamental difference between you and I. If I had to go back to the US... let's say back to SoCal, and I made $100k, not 150k, I'd still make it work... and it wouldn't be the end of the world. The trick is to live within one's means, and if you can't live in SoCal within your means at 150k a year... you're keeping up with the Joneses. I'd still most likely stay debt-free and none of my family would suffer or go hungry. Think it can't be done? Ask USMCFLYER about living in San Diego as a Marine officer and an F-18 pilot.... think his family went hungry or mingled with "migrant workers"? I can guarantee you he made far less than 150k a year.
Climbto450, just a quick link you may find useful - Dave Ramsey Homepage - daveramsey.com
Anyhow, to each their own... I stand by what I said. You can have the last word.
Have a great weekend!
So it's clear that you wouldn't accept a job in SoCal for 150k a year because in your opinion, you're better than that. I hear ya - I wouldn't accept a job in the US for 150k a year - unless I had no choice. Getting taxed through the nose before I even get paid, and then getting a bill for 8k for insurance on top of that... at Fortune 5 company no less?! You can keep that...
But here's the fundamental difference between you and I. If I had to go back to the US... let's say back to SoCal, and I made $100k, not 150k, I'd still make it work... and it wouldn't be the end of the world. The trick is to live within one's means, and if you can't live in SoCal within your means at 150k a year... you're keeping up with the Joneses. I'd still most likely stay debt-free and none of my family would suffer or go hungry. Think it can't be done? Ask USMCFLYER about living in San Diego as a Marine officer and an F-18 pilot.... think his family went hungry or mingled with "migrant workers"? I can guarantee you he made far less than 150k a year.
Climbto450, just a quick link you may find useful - Dave Ramsey Homepage - daveramsey.com
Anyhow, to each their own... I stand by what I said. You can have the last word.
Have a great weekend!
01-07-2012, 02:19 AM
#74
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 423
I see, you dont even live/work in the US or raise a family here?
This is starting to make sense....in fact you know what R, I still have your resume from about 2 years ago. Looking at it right now, you certainly never "dusted" my salary at any of the airline/charter jobs listed there and you aren't right now by flying an EMB in the sandbox. Lifestyle? Mideast? No thanks...but its the internet man, be whatever you want.
ANYHOW...back to the topic?
I don't see many G550 SoCal jobs that offer military housing.....so, in all due respect, no need to get USMCFlyers opinion on that for this topic...and again, to each his own but most of us dont want to raise our family in an apartment, even if the Europeans do.
Good to hear you enjoy living outside the US. I wouldn't live abroad if it tripled my salary tomorrow. Not many go that route by choice and I'm certainly not in aviation for the big money lol. Having been most places, I'd never consider living anywhere but here, certainly not the Mideast...I love America...expensive healthcare, horrible compensation and all...but like you said, thats just by choice, and certainly not the question here.
I can also assure you that you can live just fine on 150K in the vast majority of areas (including where I live) Never suggested otherwise.
I dont want the last word, nor to debate the US Healthcare system. All I asked was for you to quickly explain how one is "keeping up with the Joneses" on 150K with a family of 4 in SoCal. You never answered. You missed out accounting for 50%+ of basic needs we listed. You gave us a Dave Ramsey link.
I will take you up on a few beers anytime and we can solve the worlds problems....us pilots are good at that. I also get over your way on occasion.
Enjoy your weekend also.
This is starting to make sense....in fact you know what R, I still have your resume from about 2 years ago. Looking at it right now, you certainly never "dusted" my salary at any of the airline/charter jobs listed there and you aren't right now by flying an EMB in the sandbox. Lifestyle? Mideast? No thanks...but its the internet man, be whatever you want.
ANYHOW...back to the topic?
I don't see many G550 SoCal jobs that offer military housing.....so, in all due respect, no need to get USMCFlyers opinion on that for this topic...and again, to each his own but most of us dont want to raise our family in an apartment, even if the Europeans do.
Good to hear you enjoy living outside the US. I wouldn't live abroad if it tripled my salary tomorrow. Not many go that route by choice and I'm certainly not in aviation for the big money lol. Having been most places, I'd never consider living anywhere but here, certainly not the Mideast...I love America...expensive healthcare, horrible compensation and all...but like you said, thats just by choice, and certainly not the question here.
I can also assure you that you can live just fine on 150K in the vast majority of areas (including where I live) Never suggested otherwise.
I dont want the last word, nor to debate the US Healthcare system. All I asked was for you to quickly explain how one is "keeping up with the Joneses" on 150K with a family of 4 in SoCal. You never answered. You missed out accounting for 50%+ of basic needs we listed. You gave us a Dave Ramsey link.
I will take you up on a few beers anytime and we can solve the worlds problems....us pilots are good at that. I also get over your way on occasion.
Enjoy your weekend also.
Last edited by NowCorporate; 01-07-2012 at 01:28 PM.
01-07-2012, 03:08 AM
#75
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,837
Originally Posted by NowCorporate
I see, you dont even live/work in the US or raise your family here?
I don't see many G550 SoCal jobs that offer military housing.....so, in all due respect, no need to get USMCFlyers opinion on that for this topic...and again, to each his own but most of us dont want to raise on family in an apartment, even if the Europeans do.
I don't see many G550 SoCal jobs that offer military housing.....so, in all due respect, no need to get USMCFlyers opinion on that for this topic...and again, to each his own but most of us dont want to raise on family in an apartment, even if the Europeans do.
You must be thinking of the 1950s military if you think even a small minority of military officers living in the SoCal area are living in military housing. MOST military officers and their families are living out in town AT ALL military bases below the Grapevine (we'll keep this conversation geographical). They would get a basic allowance for housing, which included with other military compensation still would not come near to equaling the compensation packages that seem to be the target of this thread.
There is no need to get my opinion on that - I stated it earlier in another post. There are THOUSANDS of military families living, working, and building a life in SoCal that are doing all of the things mentioned in this thread who are not making (alone or with a dual income) near the amount of salary previously discussed here. Personally - I chose to offer myself to the Harrier Gods when I selected for community rather than live in SoCal (Orange County at El Toro for the Marines at the time). I spent my whole career avoiding California altogether until the last 4 years when I eventually found myself in CENTRAL CA - a whole different world away from SoCal! Only in those last two years (and the 6 months after retirement) did I find myself living in San Diego and as I stated earlier, I never gave a second thought to actually settling down there for a variety of reasons.
USMCFLYR
01-07-2012, 12:50 PM
#76
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: 320 F.O.
Posts: 1,386
Originally Posted by RJSAviator76
First off, I never said that 150k is too much money. I simply said that it's not a bad living - it's a normal middle class lifestyle.
Secondly, I left HB in 2008, and I can assure you, even today, I'll find a nice place for $2500 or less in location that I want - not in some "transient housing." Just a quick glance showed me a few townhouses in very nice location for less than $2000... Again, individual choices. Mind you, that's rent. I will not own anything in SoCal as the prices are still unreasonable. Instead, I own a house in another part of the country.
As for you going to debt most months on over 200k a year, again - individual choices. It's your choice to go into debt...
Secondly, I left HB in 2008, and I can assure you, even today, I'll find a nice place for $2500 or less in location that I want - not in some "transient housing." Just a quick glance showed me a few townhouses in very nice location for less than $2000... Again, individual choices. Mind you, that's rent. I will not own anything in SoCal as the prices are still unreasonable. Instead, I own a house in another part of the country.
As for you going to debt most months on over 200k a year, again - individual choices. It's your choice to go into debt...
01-17-2012, 12:08 PM
#77
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2012
Position: cpt
Posts: 5
Originally Posted by NowCorporate
You can bet your life these decisions are made by me!
Pilots are some of the worst career planners on the planet. Nobody trying to fill a good job wants to hire an unemployed person, that's a fact. They want someone who knows what they want and is eager to get it, not some one who needs something, anything. This is often seen with unemployed pilots who send resumes all over the world and wind up with a few mediocre interviews. They blame the economy, their location, nobody has the budget to move them (that's my favorite lol) etc etc...now, they often find something and are happy to plug along but they lost the battle long ago IMO. They are often underqualified and don't do much to change this, even during unemployment. They wait for change to happen. They don't put any thought into how the position would suit their needs, personal and professional. No good place wants to hire this.
My wife has been telling me this for years, as she has run her own consulting/recruiting business since kids came. Hearing stories about corporate aviation she was always amazed at how narrowly focused pilots are...many concentrate on type ratings and currency and think that's the key, but they often miss the big picture. They cruise the internet pilot job sites and consider that looking for work/networking. Ever see the majority of jobs listed online? lowest of the low unless they are poached from corporate sites, where 99% of the time they are already filled.
Maybe its because many pilots are happy just to fly an airplane and that's all they want? and will accept wherever that takes them and try to adapt (or gripe a lot) to what is offered. I think thats somewhat common, and may work just fine for some. So be it. I'm not here to judge, but can't relate.
I'm fortunate that I have never been out of work. I can also say that the very best opportunities that have come my way were by people specifically looking to take you out of a known position and place you in theirs. They were very concerned about your drive, motivation, goals...not your last recurrent at FlightSafety. They were not really interested in unemployed people.
I also know my job could go away tomorrow, and after the initial "DAMN! I liked this job" I would be OK with that really. It's just a job. You can bet I have other plans, both in aviation and out. I could not live any other way. I also am sure to keep this career "maintenance" a small (but routine) part of my life, work is work...it pays the bills and that's important, but its still a small part of my overall life!
ANYHOW...useless NowCorporate career/life advice is over. You get what you pay for..
Pilots are some of the worst career planners on the planet. Nobody trying to fill a good job wants to hire an unemployed person, that's a fact. They want someone who knows what they want and is eager to get it, not some one who needs something, anything. This is often seen with unemployed pilots who send resumes all over the world and wind up with a few mediocre interviews. They blame the economy, their location, nobody has the budget to move them (that's my favorite lol) etc etc...now, they often find something and are happy to plug along but they lost the battle long ago IMO. They are often underqualified and don't do much to change this, even during unemployment. They wait for change to happen. They don't put any thought into how the position would suit their needs, personal and professional. No good place wants to hire this.
My wife has been telling me this for years, as she has run her own consulting/recruiting business since kids came. Hearing stories about corporate aviation she was always amazed at how narrowly focused pilots are...many concentrate on type ratings and currency and think that's the key, but they often miss the big picture. They cruise the internet pilot job sites and consider that looking for work/networking. Ever see the majority of jobs listed online? lowest of the low unless they are poached from corporate sites, where 99% of the time they are already filled.
Maybe its because many pilots are happy just to fly an airplane and that's all they want? and will accept wherever that takes them and try to adapt (or gripe a lot) to what is offered. I think thats somewhat common, and may work just fine for some. So be it. I'm not here to judge, but can't relate.
I'm fortunate that I have never been out of work. I can also say that the very best opportunities that have come my way were by people specifically looking to take you out of a known position and place you in theirs. They were very concerned about your drive, motivation, goals...not your last recurrent at FlightSafety. They were not really interested in unemployed people.
I also know my job could go away tomorrow, and after the initial "DAMN! I liked this job" I would be OK with that really. It's just a job. You can bet I have other plans, both in aviation and out. I could not live any other way. I also am sure to keep this career "maintenance" a small (but routine) part of my life, work is work...it pays the bills and that's important, but its still a small part of my overall life!
ANYHOW...useless NowCorporate career/life advice is over. You get what you pay for..
does this come from your whopping 18550 hours of flight experience?
Gulfstream 200
Database Expert
Posts: 4,551
Civ/Mil: Senior International Training Captain Director of Training Chief Pilot Gulfstream Specialist Forum Leader Vbulletin and Frontpage expert top secret Webmaster plus various other industry titles
A/C Flown: GII/GIIb/GIIc/GIId/GIIIac/GIIIdc/GIV/GIVsp/G300/G350/G375/G400/G450/GV/G550/ all Gulfstreams FL510 with an online picture album!........plus a few junky non Grumman birds - Global Expresses and Challengers
Ratings: GULFSTREAM CAPTAIN, former Civil Air Patrol Lt. Colonel
Curr Position: Forum Leader Lounge Monitor
Total Time: 18,550
Database Expert
Posts: 4,551
Civ/Mil: Senior International Training Captain Director of Training Chief Pilot Gulfstream Specialist Forum Leader Vbulletin and Frontpage expert top secret Webmaster plus various other industry titles
A/C Flown: GII/GIIb/GIIc/GIId/GIIIac/GIIIdc/GIV/GIVsp/G300/G350/G375/G400/G450/GV/G550/ all Gulfstreams FL510 with an online picture album!........plus a few junky non Grumman birds - Global Expresses and Challengers
Ratings: GULFSTREAM CAPTAIN, former Civil Air Patrol Lt. Colonel
Curr Position: Forum Leader Lounge Monitor
Total Time: 18,550
someone feeling a little inadequate? couldn't make up any more bogus garbage? 18550 for a 39 year old such as yourself even when only flying 100-150 hours a year, simply amazing?
Flightinfo.com Hangar
Originally Posted by Gulfstream 200
2009 - 150hrs / approx 40 overnights
2008 - 90hrs / approx 40 overnights
2007 - 155hrs / approx 50 overnights
2009 was a 3 pilot 1 airplane gig....prior to that was a Fortune XX job with many pilots and planes...average line pilot flew approx 225hrs/yr and 6-8 overnights a month.
2008 - 90hrs / approx 40 overnights
2007 - 155hrs / approx 50 overnights
2009 was a 3 pilot 1 airplane gig....prior to that was a Fortune XX job with many pilots and planes...average line pilot flew approx 225hrs/yr and 6-8 overnights a month.
01-17-2012, 12:13 PM
#78
The NeverEnding Story
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,511
LOL, somebody joined APC for the sole purpose of "outing" G200....
This might come as a HUGE surprise to ya FlyerAPC, but G200's Flightinfo profile is...wait for it...a bunch of sarcastic internet nonsense. Unpossible I know, but true.
This might come as a HUGE surprise to ya FlyerAPC, but G200's Flightinfo profile is...wait for it...a bunch of sarcastic internet nonsense. Unpossible I know, but true.
01-17-2012, 12:31 PM
#79
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2012
Position: cpt
Posts: 5
Originally Posted by BoilerUP
G200's Flightinfo profile is...wait for it...a bunch of sarcastic internet nonsense. Unpossible I know, but true.
01-17-2012, 12:47 PM
#80
The NeverEnding Story
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,511
Skull-1, is that you?!?
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