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-   -   Considering a Career Shift (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/corporate/63783-considering-career-shift.html)

SteveCostello 12-01-2011 07:12 AM

Considering a Career Shift
 
I already have a thread posted in the Career Builder/Career Questions section (http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/ca...t-too-old.html), so I won't duplicate the questions I ask there, but do encourage some of you corporate iron haulers to go check it out and see what you think, and possibly offer up some of your thoughts.

My questions here will be a little more focused. I am specifically interested in flying for a corporate flight department or charter company that services corporate clients. While it would be awesome, I am being realistic and do not aspire to fly G650s or Globals. At this point, I'd be perfectly happy with King Airs or small jets.

My questions:

1.) I notice a LOT of people in the other thread that appear to hate their jobs. That's disappointing. Not sure if these are all regional pilots or what. I certainly do not want to hate my job (which is why I am exploring this option in the first place, because my current job does nothing for me). What's the general consensus over here? Do most of you find your job at least somewhat rewarding?

2.) As mentioned in the other thread, I just turned 40, and have less than 100 hours total time right now. I have a steep hill to climb, would it be worth it to land a corporate gig... or, more to the point, is it even possible? Do corporate flight departments consider applicants that don't have thousands upon thousands of hours?

3.) Lifestyle. What is the typical lifestyle for corporate pilots? I'm really flexible... I can handle weirdo hours and some missed holidays, as long as it isn't QUITE as bad as some regional pilots have it. I get the last minute flights, etc. Just looking for more details along these lines, with the understanding that everyone is going to have a slightly different story depending on the company.

I'm sure I'll have more questions later, but this is a good start. Thanks in advance for any guidance you toss my way.

(Edit: I should modify my comment about the G650 and other large bizjets to say something more along the lines that I DO aspire to fly those, very much so, however I understand that since I would be coming to the game a little late at the age of 40 with essentially no flight experience, that I may never be able to get enough hours to move into those types. Just trying to be realistic about what I could achieve should I make this move.)

HotMamaPilot 12-01-2011 07:25 AM

Nope, I'm not a regional pilot. I think it's funny that you are already negotiating working holidays. Hint: you WILL be working holidays.

BoilerUP 12-01-2011 07:43 AM

I love my job.

I work for a very small company that has a GREAT founder/president who advocates for our aircraft and their positive contribution to the bottom line. I don't work holidays and typically only 10-14 total weekend days per year. My wife & son are invited along any time there are seats open. I fly fairly new equipment that is impeccably maintained. I stay in hotels of my choosing, eat whatever I want to eat, and don't get expenses micromanaged. I get the option to airline home for long trips (doing so tomorrow in fact), and about half the time we're told to repo the jet home despite it costing a LOT more than airline tickets. I typically have <24hr notice for a trip maybe once a year, and have only gotten one "We've got to be airborne 10 minutes ago" call in the 4 years I've been here and that was because the boss's daughter was rushed into the ER on the other side of the country with an aneurism (she thankfully is okay).

But I know more folks that are flying the HMFIC to vacation homes seemingly every weekend and holiday, with what I would consider a miserable quality of life, than pilots with a schedule similar to mine.

All that said, there are lots of unemployed/underemployed corporate & charter pilots out there right now. Many folks who are flexible with there they move and have desirable type ratings or, more importantly, a strong network, have been able to find work but some have not.

Even the most entry-level of corporate jobs typically want 2500hrs and an ATP as bare minimums. Some companies and charter operators will hire with less, but that's the exception not the norm. With 100 hours, the OP will have a LONG way to go.

Keep building time, and start developing your network...but to make such a jump at this point you'll likely need to bite the bullet and do something that might be 'less desirable' like fly for a regional, tow banners, fly freight, etc.

Good luck!

SteveCostello 12-01-2011 09:03 AM


Originally Posted by HotMamaPilot (Post 1094546)
Nope, I'm not a regional pilot. I think it's funny that you are already negotiating working holidays. Hint: you WILL be working holidays.

Sigh. Where am I negotiating holidays? All I implied was that I understand that corporate types do fly on holidays, and I am okay with that. Underlying that was also the assumption that they don't fly EVERY holiday, like most of the low- and mid-seniority regional and major pilots, but if I was incorrect in that assumption, then I wanted to hear about it.

BoilerUP's answer is more along the lines of what I was hoping to get. Not all glossy great news, but an educated, realistic look at his/her particular situation, with the acknowledgement that not every corporate gig is going to be like theirs.

And I more or less assumed what Boiler's conclusion would be... it'll be a bit of a slog to achieve my goal. Especially if I just up and quit what I am doing now and went full-in... which I would not be able to do.

Red Forman 12-01-2011 09:46 AM

Steve,

Where do you live and would you be willing to move? I did the regional thing for four years and it was ok but the corporate gig is much better! In November I worked four days and had two overnights. Now that was a slower than normal month, but on average I would say I work 10-12 days a month and have only two overnights a month. Like Boiler said, even though I am "on call" we have three pilots for one airplane, so when someone needs a day or two off we just keep the other guys in the loop so at least two of us are always available. But so far in my time here the shortest call out I have had has been two days because we usually have our schedule a week in advance. Just keep in mind that not all corporate gigs are created equal. It all comes down to who you know and where you live or are willing to move to. Hope it helps.

SteveCostello 12-01-2011 10:33 AM


Originally Posted by Red Forman (Post 1094631)
Steve,
Where do you live and would you be willing to move?

It all comes down to who you know and where you live or are willing to move to. Hope it helps.

That does help... thanks.

I live in St. Louis, with two very active biz airports (KCPS and KSUS) less than a 15 minute drive from my house. In fact, the approach for KCPS 12R goes right over my house... Gulfstreams, Lears, and GA over my house all day long. In addition, I work for a company that has at least on Gulfstream, but past that, I know nothing about our flight department.

My wife and I are willing to move. She's in HR, so she can go anywhere, and right now I am a web developer/designer, so for the most part, I can live anywhere. Moving is a ways down the road... have to become even remotely qualified, first, but we'd definitely be open to it.

So my two weaknesses are obviously experience and networking. I need to figure out a way to get 2500TT and hobknob with the right elbow-rubbers in very short order. :)

NowCorporate 12-01-2011 12:09 PM

I love my job also...

Boiler Up said it all well and I agree with him on the lifestyle, I would not like airlines myself as all my airline friends work much harder than me. I like time off.

I have been fortunate to have only worked ONE holiday (this Thanksgiving) in my last 6-7 years. I started off in a 135 outfit flying Learjets...guess what? 135 pilots fly holidays. Charter is just that way.

Best advice I can ever give (and always do) is dont bother getting into this game unless you want to LIVE WHERE THE JOBS ARE. I simply know NO unemployed, qualified corporate pilots near me. In fact, I know its very difficult to even find good people. I know marginally qualified people in depressed areas who have been out of work 3 years. Its all about location.

If you do get into it, work like mad right out of the gate to get through the time building, harder jobs ASAP.

The right corporate job can be a great lifestyle. You wont get rich....think 125-200K in the better equipment...but the time off and job itself? Hard to beat!

Good Luck.

galaxy flyer 12-01-2011 12:26 PM

A corporate job is like getting married--be careful. You need to know the personalities, the company what they do and fly and whether it fits your temperament. Remember, you will be spending a fair amount of time with them. My advice is a department with at least 7-10 pilots, makes for some variety. Good companies still offer pay and benefits that far exceed the regionals and even some of the majors. In round numbers on a Global, it's about DL 767 CA pay. If, big IF, you like or can stand international work.

That said, you have a very steep mountain to climb to get a corporate job. Basic licenses, then some gig to get 2000 hours and at least 500-750 hours of PIC time. In bad times, to boot.

GF

SteveCostello 12-01-2011 12:29 PM


Originally Posted by NowCorporate (Post 1094758)
The right corporate job can be a great lifestyle. You wont get rich....think 125-200K in the better equipment...but the time off and job itself? Hard to beat!
Good Luck.

I've seen this theme repeated again and again around here... people complaining about making between $80K and $120K or so. I don't know about anyone else here, but that sounds like a pretty damned good living to me. My wife and I each make ~$70K, and we are quite comfortable, and have savings to boot. Do I drive a $60,000 BMW, have the latest 72" TV, a 4,000 square foot McMansion and a house on the lake? No... but we do have a very comfortable 4/3 house in the city, two nice cars, etc.

Would I be happy with $125K-$200K? You bet your butt I would be... that's about twice what I make right now. Which is why I stated in the other thread that I'd be happy at this point flying a BE350 for a small corporate outfit for about the money I am making now. It's not completely about the money for me, although I will absolutely take ALL I can get!

The money is actually a primary concern for me... as in, can I get back to making the money I am making now in relatively short order? How long will it take for me to get to that point, and can I continue working full time in this job while I try to get there? Those are the questions swimming in my head. I've seen over and over that I need minimum 2,000 hours, and I would presume that much of that needs to be TT. Have no idea how to do that without doing some regional work, which, from what I've read around here, does not appeal to me at all, and certainly would not appeal to my wife.

galaxy flyer 12-01-2011 12:58 PM

That's the problem, Steve, about the only way to get the time nowadays is at regionals. And, at regionals it is very hard to get PIC time, without which getting a corporate job is nigh impossible. You mention King Air jobs, well, they are mostly single pilot, so you need to have a record of command time. Good corporate jobs don't turnover very often and when they do, hiring is word of mouth. I just got off an airliner and got asked if I was interested in a job. I'm not, but I'm sure they are filled already.

Corporate is very good, but hard to break into. The regionals or the 135 guys like Ameriflight is for young kids who don't have a life but flying and can live out of car. Until I was 35 I didn't own anything that couldn't fit in a Ford Pinto--cheap and easy to move on.

GF


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