C421....need some insight
03-02-2014, 04:50 AM
#11
Flying Farmer
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Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Turbo-props' and John Deere's
Posts: 3,160
I should note that these guys are looking for a full time pilot. I am not interested because I farm for a living, and only offer contract service when I am available. I don't have any details beyond that, and anything I say after this is just speculation.
Plane is based at KMIE, so living between there and Indianapolis would probably be an option. No idea what they are offering as salary, time commitment, or additional duties. I would speculate +/-250 hrs a year. If I hear more i will pass it on
Plane is based at KMIE, so living between there and Indianapolis would probably be an option. No idea what they are offering as salary, time commitment, or additional duties. I would speculate +/-250 hrs a year. If I hear more i will pass it on
03-02-2014, 05:58 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: Precarious
Posts: 378
50 hours on the oil change is fine as long as you use good oil. Don't skimp there. I used to fly for an operator with MANY thousands of hours of 421 experience, and the power settings/fuel flows you described were exactly what we ran.
03-02-2014, 09:12 AM
#13
Flying Farmer
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Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Turbo-props' and John Deere's
Posts: 3,160
Originally Posted by conquestdz
50 hours on the oil change is fine as long as you use good oil. Don't skimp there. I used to fly for an operator with MANY thousands of hours of 421 experience, and the power settings/fuel flows you described were exactly what we ran.
03-12-2014, 02:08 AM
#14
On Reserve
Joined APC: Apr 2010
Posts: 23
I have never flown a 421 but do fly a 404 which, I believe, has the same engines. The figures you have quoted for climb and cruise are pretty much what I was told to use - perhaps 31" in cruise rather than 30".
I try not to run at less than 800 RPM on the ground because of the gearbox "slap", it is not so noticeable inside but from the outside you can definitely hear it. I lean quite aggressively on the ground as the engines seem to run much more smoothly that way. Do not exercise the props below 1500 RPM as you will bend the anti-feather locks if you do. At 1500 RPM the centrifugal force will have them out of the way.
I am not an advocate of shock cooling being far more concerned with sudden applications of heat rather than reduction of it. I don't unnecessarily reduce power rapidly but if I have to I have no qualms about reducing from 31" to 25" in a smooth reduction. Don't let the props drive the engine. It is a great way to damage the gearbox. I treat the bottom of the green arc on the MP gauge as a definite limit until closing the throttles to land.
As for oil changes at 25 hours, I have flown for one operator that swears by the practice. He operated in a remote area and never struck much in the way of problems with any of his aircraft between regular servicing but he was adamant about the oil change.
The GTSIO engines have, I think, an undeserved reputation for being fragile. The maintenance guys where I am love them with much fewer problems than the Lycomings in a Chieftain but perhaps that has more to do with the ease of servicing a Cessna over a Piper.
I try not to run at less than 800 RPM on the ground because of the gearbox "slap", it is not so noticeable inside but from the outside you can definitely hear it. I lean quite aggressively on the ground as the engines seem to run much more smoothly that way. Do not exercise the props below 1500 RPM as you will bend the anti-feather locks if you do. At 1500 RPM the centrifugal force will have them out of the way.
I am not an advocate of shock cooling being far more concerned with sudden applications of heat rather than reduction of it. I don't unnecessarily reduce power rapidly but if I have to I have no qualms about reducing from 31" to 25" in a smooth reduction. Don't let the props drive the engine. It is a great way to damage the gearbox. I treat the bottom of the green arc on the MP gauge as a definite limit until closing the throttles to land.
As for oil changes at 25 hours, I have flown for one operator that swears by the practice. He operated in a remote area and never struck much in the way of problems with any of his aircraft between regular servicing but he was adamant about the oil change.
The GTSIO engines have, I think, an undeserved reputation for being fragile. The maintenance guys where I am love them with much fewer problems than the Lycomings in a Chieftain but perhaps that has more to do with the ease of servicing a Cessna over a Piper.
03-13-2014, 03:24 PM
#15
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 461
Originally Posted by JohnnyG
These planes are great for what they were, but are becoming less and less desirable.
Owners still want 300K for nice ones, and 3 operators I know that fly a lot are averaging an engine failure a year. Suddenly a 600K dollar King Air that you spend 30K a year in mx on doesn't seem that bad, especially when you climb at 400FPM in the summer in a 400 series piston plane.
100K dollar annuals seem to be not uncommon on 421s.
Owners still want 300K for nice ones, and 3 operators I know that fly a lot are averaging an engine failure a year. Suddenly a 600K dollar King Air that you spend 30K a year in mx on doesn't seem that bad, especially when you climb at 400FPM in the summer in a 400 series piston plane.
100K dollar annuals seem to be not uncommon on 421s.
Originally Posted by PLovett
I have never flown a 421 but do fly a 404 which, I believe, has the same engines. The figures you have quoted for climb and cruise are pretty much what I was told to use - perhaps 31" in cruise rather than 30".
I try not to run at less than 800 RPM on the ground because of the gearbox "slap", it is not so noticeable inside but from the outside you can definitely hear it. I lean quite aggressively on the ground as the engines seem to run much more smoothly that way. Do not exercise the props below 1500 RPM as you will bend the anti-feather locks if you do. At 1500 RPM the centrifugal force will have them out of the way.
I am not an advocate of shock cooling being far more concerned with sudden applications of heat rather than reduction of it. I don't unnecessarily reduce power rapidly but if I have to I have no qualms about reducing from 31" to 25" in a smooth reduction. Don't let the props drive the engine. It is a great way to damage the gearbox. I treat the bottom of the green arc on the MP gauge as a definite limit until closing the throttles to land.
As for oil changes at 25 hours, I have flown for one operator that swears by the practice. He operated in a remote area and never struck much in the way of problems with any of his aircraft between regular servicing but he was adamant about the oil change.
The GTSIO engines have, I think, an undeserved reputation for being fragile. The maintenance guys where I am love them with much fewer problems than the Lycomings in a Chieftain but perhaps that has more to do with the ease of servicing a Cessna over a Piper.
I try not to run at less than 800 RPM on the ground because of the gearbox "slap", it is not so noticeable inside but from the outside you can definitely hear it. I lean quite aggressively on the ground as the engines seem to run much more smoothly that way. Do not exercise the props below 1500 RPM as you will bend the anti-feather locks if you do. At 1500 RPM the centrifugal force will have them out of the way.
I am not an advocate of shock cooling being far more concerned with sudden applications of heat rather than reduction of it. I don't unnecessarily reduce power rapidly but if I have to I have no qualms about reducing from 31" to 25" in a smooth reduction. Don't let the props drive the engine. It is a great way to damage the gearbox. I treat the bottom of the green arc on the MP gauge as a definite limit until closing the throttles to land.
As for oil changes at 25 hours, I have flown for one operator that swears by the practice. He operated in a remote area and never struck much in the way of problems with any of his aircraft between regular servicing but he was adamant about the oil change.
The GTSIO engines have, I think, an undeserved reputation for being fragile. The maintenance guys where I am love them with much fewer problems than the Lycomings in a Chieftain but perhaps that has more to do with the ease of servicing a Cessna over a Piper.
If your MP ever drops to ambient, shut down the affected engine. (ask me how I know). Exhaust failures will burn through the engine mount and or the spar.
03-14-2014, 04:29 PM
#16
Flying Farmer
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Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Turbo-props' and John Deere's
Posts: 3,160
Originally Posted by PLovett
I have never flown a 421 but do fly a 404 which, I believe, has the same engines. The figures you have quoted for climb and cruise are pretty much what I was told to use - perhaps 31" in cruise rather than 30".
I try not to run at less than 800 RPM on the ground because of the gearbox "slap", it is not so noticeable inside but from the outside you can definitely hear it. I lean quite aggressively on the ground as the engines seem to run much more smoothly that way. Do not exercise the props below 1500 RPM as you will bend the anti-feather locks if you do. At 1500 RPM the centrifugal force will have them out of the way.
I am not an advocate of shock cooling being far more concerned with sudden applications of heat rather than reduction of it. I don't unnecessarily reduce power rapidly but if I have to I have no qualms about reducing from 31" to 25" in a smooth reduction. Don't let the props drive the engine. It is a great way to damage the gearbox. I treat the bottom of the green arc on the MP gauge as a definite limit until closing the throttles to land.
As for oil changes at 25 hours, I have flown for one operator that swears by the practice. He operated in a remote area and never struck much in the way of problems with any of his aircraft between regular servicing but he was adamant about the oil change.
The GTSIO engines have, I think, an undeserved reputation for being fragile. The maintenance guys where I am love them with much fewer problems than the Lycomings in a Chieftain but perhaps that has more to do with the ease of servicing a Cessna over a Piper.
I try not to run at less than 800 RPM on the ground because of the gearbox "slap", it is not so noticeable inside but from the outside you can definitely hear it. I lean quite aggressively on the ground as the engines seem to run much more smoothly that way. Do not exercise the props below 1500 RPM as you will bend the anti-feather locks if you do. At 1500 RPM the centrifugal force will have them out of the way.
I am not an advocate of shock cooling being far more concerned with sudden applications of heat rather than reduction of it. I don't unnecessarily reduce power rapidly but if I have to I have no qualms about reducing from 31" to 25" in a smooth reduction. Don't let the props drive the engine. It is a great way to damage the gearbox. I treat the bottom of the green arc on the MP gauge as a definite limit until closing the throttles to land.
As for oil changes at 25 hours, I have flown for one operator that swears by the practice. He operated in a remote area and never struck much in the way of problems with any of his aircraft between regular servicing but he was adamant about the oil change.
The GTSIO engines have, I think, an undeserved reputation for being fragile. The maintenance guys where I am love them with much fewer problems than the Lycomings in a Chieftain but perhaps that has more to do with the ease of servicing a Cessna over a Piper.
Instead of what I was told, I looked at cruise numbers in the POH and it does use 31" and skips to 29" if I remember right. With the soon to be timed out engine I think I might stick with the 30" hybrid setting.
A guy I know flies some "b" models and he said to keep 21" on final until you can't anymore to keep them out of that "float" zone. They had 4 of them on charter, so figured they had a good system. I think that is high, but you can manage with flaps and it didn't work too bad on my last flight(plus a low ILS app to boot)
Thanks again guys
03-15-2014, 10:47 AM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Out of Regional Jet flying
Posts: 296
Change the oil every 25 hours. It's all about the gearbox. If the aircraft is 135, you can't go beyond TBO. From your posts, I am guessing it's operated 91.
Also, I would not go much past TBO, because again, it's all about the gearbox. Operating the engine past TBO greatly increases the risk of non-repairable gearbox components.
Also, I would not go much past TBO, because again, it's all about the gearbox. Operating the engine past TBO greatly increases the risk of non-repairable gearbox components.
07-26-2014, 01:14 PM
#18
Flying Farmer
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Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Turbo-props' and John Deere's
Posts: 3,160
So new question. Normal time for nacelle fuel to transfer would be......? Only one tank so nothing to compare to.
I used it once, and couldn't recall the time, but another pilot squawked it. Issues in my mind could be weak pump, or possible particulate in line slowing down the flow.
Otherwise it does work, just seeking additional input on what folks have seen or what would raise concerns.
I used it once, and couldn't recall the time, but another pilot squawked it. Issues in my mind could be weak pump, or possible particulate in line slowing down the flow.
Otherwise it does work, just seeking additional input on what folks have seen or what would raise concerns.
07-27-2014, 04:18 PM
#19
Day puke
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: Out.
Posts: 3,865
Originally Posted by Ewfflyer
So new question. Normal time for nacelle fuel to transfer would be......? Only one tank so nothing to compare to.
I used it once, and couldn't recall the time, but another pilot squawked it. Issues in my mind could be weak pump, or possible particulate in line slowing down the flow.
Otherwise it does work, just seeking additional input on what folks have seen or what would raise concerns.
I used it once, and couldn't recall the time, but another pilot squawked it. Issues in my mind could be weak pump, or possible particulate in line slowing down the flow.
Otherwise it does work, just seeking additional input on what folks have seen or what would raise concerns.
Lots of rust in my memory, but IIFC it flows at about the same rate as climb burn (180lbs/hour).
Our planes only had one nacelle tank on the left side (I think). The air conditioner (hydraulic type) occupied the space where the other tank would have been.
My procedure: At a safe altitude, maybe 5000 agl, I would have both engines drawing from the side that had the nacelle tank until there was about 200 lbs imbalance (assumes a topped nacelle tank-if not topped, make the imbalance equal the the pounds in the nacelle). Normalize the selectors and start transferring from the nacelle. By the time the transfer is complete you will have set cruise power, the transfer is a faster than cruise power flows (140/hour), so the main on that side will show a small INCREASE in volume and will be pretty close to balanced with the opposite side. I THINK the pumps were lubricated by the fuel, so it is important to stop the transfer as soon as the light starts to flicker.
We didn't need them very often and since I am a little paranoid, I would run a few gallons through the system at least monthly to exercise the pump and clear out the old fuel in the lines.
If you are talking about the wing LOCKER tanks, I wouldn't even guess because the only plane we flew that had them had such a goofy transfer procedure that I wrote my own crib notes so I wouldn't screw up.
Last edited by FlyJSH; 07-27-2014 at 04:28 PM.
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