Details on Delta TA
05-31-2015, 04:53 AM
#5201
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2012
Posts: 132
Originally Posted by notEnuf
What is 18.3% in dollars.
You will have to use your surface or go to Deltanet for this one.
Inside our business: Flight Operations - page 5 the flight ops expense graph shows pilot salaries at 75% of a 3 billion dollar budget or 2.25 billion.
2.25B X 18.3% = 411.75M
We are asking for:
$412 million/year
You will have to use your surface or go to Deltanet for this one.
Inside our business: Flight Operations - page 5 the flight ops expense graph shows pilot salaries at 75% of a 3 billion dollar budget or 2.25 billion.
2.25B X 18.3% = 411.75M
We are asking for:
$412 million/year
Does this number include, DPSP, etc? I do not think so and the number is higher.
05-31-2015, 05:01 AM
#5202
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: undefined
Posts: 328
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
You know what would've been cool?
If DALPA had laid out the exact cost to operate CRJ900s/E175s here and taken into account the quality control, productivity and ROI that operating those jets at mainline instead of DCI provided the company and then published it and flight for it.
Whatever nickle and dime short comings we'd had because of pilot hourly pay would've been more than made up for with improved QC, productivity and roi.
You could have made that argument and the it down for all to know is what you demanded.
If DALPA had laid out the exact cost to operate CRJ900s/E175s here and taken into account the quality control, productivity and ROI that operating those jets at mainline instead of DCI provided the company and then published it and flight for it.
Whatever nickle and dime short comings we'd had because of pilot hourly pay would've been more than made up for with improved QC, productivity and roi.
You could have made that argument and the it down for all to know is what you demanded.
05-31-2015, 05:15 AM
#5203
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: stake holder ir.delta.com
Posts: 10,027
A+b=c
Part C
Profit sharing is worth 10% of 2.5B + 20% of 2.5B+
2014 was 4.5B
250M + 400M based on 2014 payout. = 650M
If monetized dollar for dollar: 650M
That's a 28.8% pay increase day 1. If you keep profit sharing at 20% above 4.5 billion this is a cost neutral deal.
The original Question was:
Is this to much to ask?
NO!, its too Little!
Cost neutral is a 28.8% raise if we reset profit sharing to 4.5B
Ed Bastian could still say "cost neutral" and we would still participate in the upside.
Disclaimer:
That's just pay. We need to make gains. For every dollar value we give up we are a cost savings to management. Notice I said gains not the c word. I can't even use that word in this, the best negotiating environment in our history.
Profit sharing is worth 10% of 2.5B + 20% of 2.5B+
2014 was 4.5B
250M + 400M based on 2014 payout. = 650M
If monetized dollar for dollar: 650M
That's a 28.8% pay increase day 1. If you keep profit sharing at 20% above 4.5 billion this is a cost neutral deal.
The original Question was:
Is this to much to ask?
NO!, its too Little!
Cost neutral is a 28.8% raise if we reset profit sharing to 4.5B
Ed Bastian could still say "cost neutral" and we would still participate in the upside.
Disclaimer:
That's just pay. We need to make gains. For every dollar value we give up we are a cost savings to management. Notice I said gains not the c word. I can't even use that word in this, the best negotiating environment in our history.
05-31-2015, 05:30 AM
#5204
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by notEnuf
Attachment 2119
Is this too much to ask?
Can we restore this pay scale on the date of signing? The answer requires two pieces of information. In this vacuum of information I will try to explain how we get there. Some of the information I will reference is not public but every Delta pilot has access to it. I would like this to be a fact based argument that can be logically presented to any Delta pilot so your scrutiny is very welcome.
A - the cost of the increase in pay rates
B - can they be palatable enough to management to be accepted
Is this too much to ask?
Can we restore this pay scale on the date of signing? The answer requires two pieces of information. In this vacuum of information I will try to explain how we get there. Some of the information I will reference is not public but every Delta pilot has access to it. I would like this to be a fact based argument that can be logically presented to any Delta pilot so your scrutiny is very welcome.
A - the cost of the increase in pay rates
B - can they be palatable enough to management to be accepted
05-31-2015, 05:33 AM
#5205
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,539
Originally Posted by notEnuf
Part C
Profit sharing is worth 10% of 2.5B + 20% of 2.5B+
2014 was 4.5B
250M + 400M based on 2014 payout. = 650M
If monetized dollar for dollar: 650M
That's a 28.8% pay increase day 1. If you keep profit sharing at 20% above 4.5 billion this is a cost neutral deal.
Profit sharing is worth 10% of 2.5B + 20% of 2.5B+
2014 was 4.5B
250M + 400M based on 2014 payout. = 650M
If monetized dollar for dollar: 650M
That's a 28.8% pay increase day 1. If you keep profit sharing at 20% above 4.5 billion this is a cost neutral deal.
05-31-2015, 05:52 AM
#5206
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: stake holder ir.delta.com
Posts: 10,027
The scrutiny is welcome. Please show me the data and I will adjust it.
Payout Calculation PTIX Levels
% of PTIX Paid under Program $0 to $2.5 billion 15.0% in 2012 10.0% in 2013 and each year thereafter Over $2.5 billion 20.0%
This is from section 3 compensation I. profit sharing of the current PWA
Payout Calculation PTIX Levels
% of PTIX Paid under Program $0 to $2.5 billion 15.0% in 2012 10.0% in 2013 and each year thereafter Over $2.5 billion 20.0%
This is from section 3 compensation I. profit sharing of the current PWA
05-31-2015, 05:58 AM
#5207
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,539
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
You know what would've been cool?
If DALPA had laid out the exact cost to operate CRJ900s/E175s here and taken into account the quality control, productivity and ROI that operating those jets at mainline instead of DCI provided the company and then published it and flight for it.
If DALPA had laid out the exact cost to operate CRJ900s/E175s here and taken into account the quality control, productivity and ROI that operating those jets at mainline instead of DCI provided the company and then published it and flight for it.
Btw, the analysis was done. The MEC was briefed. With the actual numbers, not speculation and assumption. It didn't work out as you wish it did. Ask the current and former code-share guys if you want another source.
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
Whatever nickle and dime short comings we'd had because of pilot hourly pay would've been more than made up for with improved QC, productivity and roi.
Oh, and before you trot out your 3 year old spreadsheets (how do those look now anyway
) UAL is just beginning their RJ reductions this year. Other than upgauging, AMR hasn't really gotten started in a meaningful way except for transferring Envoy assets. So for something that was "going to happen anyway" it took our competitors 3 years to begin. We're already back in negotiations for a new deal. FDX, SWA, and UPS "wound the clock." UAL won't negotiate for another year and still lags us by a year. APA traded the guts of their contract (scope, sick leave, disability, work rules) for pay, but is now stuck until 2020 (new amendable date).And you're flying in a shiny "new" jet, and DCI has about 30% fewer pilots.
05-31-2015, 06:21 AM
#5208
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: Power top
Posts: 2,959
In 2012, our economic analysis folks did not predict the billions in profits. So we accepted paltry pay raises and concessions. Now we know the truth moving forward. The company wants a fast contract because it will be difficult to negotiate in this climate of ridiculous profits, including stock buy backs, dividends, etc. I would predict they go on another buying spree, i.e. Virgin Atlantic, refineries, GOL and RJ purchases. They did it post C2102.
"Those who can not remember the past are condemned to repeat it".
"Those who can not remember the past are condemned to repeat it".
05-31-2015, 06:22 AM
#5209
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by EdGrimley
Fixed your statement....
Not if we keep writing more outsourced jumbo RJ's into these TA's every 3 or 4 years. Let's hold the line for once. I understand many of those crafting these TA's are looking after their own seniority situation and don't mind horse trading larger RJ's keeping the divisive outsourced RJ dream of Leo alive. It's unnecessary and short sighted. Let's do something good for the industry.
Gloopy suggested creating a timeline to sunset outsourced flying. This is the correct way to go. Fight scope on the top and bottom end. It creates solidarity. We write letters to our government leaders to fend off the middle east carriers while we let our union take us down the primrose path of further scope creep that harms all Delta pilots. It's the definition of insanity.
Not if we keep writing more outsourced jumbo RJ's into these TA's every 3 or 4 years. Let's hold the line for once. I understand many of those crafting these TA's are looking after their own seniority situation and don't mind horse trading larger RJ's keeping the divisive outsourced RJ dream of Leo alive. It's unnecessary and short sighted. Let's do something good for the industry.
Gloopy suggested creating a timeline to sunset outsourced flying. This is the correct way to go. Fight scope on the top and bottom end. It creates solidarity. We write letters to our government leaders to fend off the middle east carriers while we let our union take us down the primrose path of further scope creep that harms all Delta pilots. It's the definition of insanity.
Carl
05-31-2015, 06:40 AM
#5210
Snake
Joined APC: May 2015
Posts: 242
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
Just a line pilot here paying from my parents basement in Amarillo, but, how is reviewing leaks, lies and trial balloons here giving the company everything they want?
But the average bear can't tell the difference. We're talking millions of dollars here, paid for with just a few well-placed words. Congratulations. Management now knows your lowest number, and is certain that APC is filled with complete loons. The latest super premium update from C20 touches on this a bit.
Now that's irony.
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