freightguy

I never implied there was a relation. I said we are financially strong. And I hope we remain so. And you are right- if there is a downturn in the economy, we are better positioned.

But from a pilot standpoint (not the walstreet standpoint)- I am worried about our codeshare philosphy. Because of the amount of international flying we are farming away.

WhatNow

How much international would you say we farmed away since 2008?

freightguy

All 747 freight flying out of Anchorage. We do put cargo on AF jets today. Many interport destinations out of Narita. Incheon went to Korean, Ho Ci Minh went to Vietnam. Mumbai went to Jet Airways. Lost many European destinations to Air France and KLM. We fly more people into Africa through code-sharing on AF/KLM that on our own metal. We fly a lot of people into Asia via Korean codeshares. Just some examples.

And it's a huge reason why we have a mini widebody fleet. If we add our premium widebody fleet (I am not including 7ERs as it pays narrwbody rates), we sit at 90 airframes (777+330+764+747). United sits at 140 (747+787+777+764). We are not taking a lot of long haul opportunities because of the code-sharing we are doing.

So is Delta a dead end career? I don't think so. But will a new hire have better widebody opportunities at United or American? Absolutely.

WhatNow

I asked because I am often surprised at what people's perceptions are verses reality. The actual answer would be our European flying is flat since 2008 and the pacific is up over 10%. Air France freighters keep getting mentioned here often. They parked their last 747 freighter in 2014. They are going to belly freight only.

freightguy

I agree. But when compared to the two other major airlines in the US- they expended considerably across the Atlantic and Pacific and their current widebody fleet plans looks very ambitious. But we have publicly stated we will codeshare more and more across the pacific and Atlantic, and that airplanes like B777 does not fit in our plans. But airlines like Air France and Korean has expanded on the back of our codesharing. They don't bring anything smaller than a 330 into our Hubs. In many cases- they are bringing A380s to take our passengers out.

So again, to all the newbies airline shopping: if you want a solid domestic career with some international flying- Delta is a decent airline for right now. You want to fly long haul- go to United or American.

But this is the thing about airline business. You never know what happens down the road. Just 6 months to a year ago- Delta was the place to be. We touted 'great' pilot to management relationship and a fantastic merger. Today, the kumbaya wagon is off the tracks. It came off when the last TA got voted down and it's a good thing.

Banzai

This whole thread makes me bummed out.

Cultures can always change, but DAL was my first choice based on the toxic America West/US Airways/American Airlines stew going on at AA. Then United also seemed to be an airline adept at not making any money with the best route structure in the world, while housing two feuding labor groups, and managing to be the most hated airline in the US.

And now DAL is dead - set on outsourcing our careers? Just no winning here.

badflaps

I can sorta can see what they are doing, spreading out the risk while still pulling in cash. If the world implodes any time soon they are in the catbird seat.... if not, well... We didn't think they'd do that.

DAL73n

NOTHING REPEAT NOTHING replaces driving to work as an airline pilot. It saves you from hours/days/month of commuting (and of worrying about the commute). Driving to work gives you amazing opportunities to pick up premium time. Getting hired in the middle (or worse) of a hiring boom gives you no guarantees. You will not like being at the bottom again with commuting to reserve. I'm sure you make a good living at SWA and starting at 1st year pay again will not be pleasant. JUST DON'T DO IT!

WhatNow

DAL is just fine. Management plans on increasing not decreasing our international flying and they have the fleet plan to support it. They have as a matter of policy stated they prefer buying aircraft in small blocks rather then big orders so the order book is not as extensive as AMR or UAL. For all the forum doom and gloom we are still the largest carrier to Europe and the second largest over the pacific with almost 3 times what AMR has.

Trip7

The A350 fits our management's plan. It will pay the same as the 777.

I think a lot of the international doom and gloom here will start to subside when the A350 arrives on property in the Spring.