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JP Morgan's analysis of the TA

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JP Morgan's analysis of the TA

Old 10-14-2016, 04:53 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by Dharma View Post
What you wrote above is not correct. Our profits sharing formulas are different.

United's 10%/20% split is at 6.9% operating margin. Ours is at $2.5 Billion of pre-tax income. If our companies were smaller and more profitable, your formula would be better. But they aren't. As revenue size increases, given the same operating margin, the Delta formula gradually gets better and better. At our current size and and for a similar level of profitability the Delta formula is about 30% better. Because we are a more profitable company, it is slightly better than that.
Correct, the UAL program captures nothing from growth.
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Old 10-14-2016, 11:38 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by Dharma View Post
What you wrote above is not correct. Our profits sharing formulas are different.

United's 10%/20% split is at 6.9% operating margin. Ours is at $2.5 Billion of pre-tax income. If our companies were smaller and more profitable, your formula would be better. But they aren't. As revenue size increases, given the same operating margin, the Delta formula gradually gets better and better. At our current size and and for a similar level of profitability the Delta formula is about 30% better. Because we are a more profitable company, it is slightly better than that.
Yeah I guess I should not lecture the rubes at UAL about their own contract....

Sunvox
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Old 10-20-2016, 12:47 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by Whereisalpa View Post
This is going to be a slam dunk. Will there be a few surprises, most likely after all we are pilots. The guys yelling NO right now are mostly just hedging their future "see!! I am so much smarter than you, do the math, I did the math" .....blah blah blah....
This will pass huge and quick!!
It is easy to vote NO when you are very sure something will pass; some would call it cowardly. (YEH, I didn't vote for this POS!!!.....) Vote how you want this to really go. On Dec 2nd, if the MEMRAT vote is against your sincere, not posturing, vote, then you are in the minority of a democratically run contest. Holds true for the presidential contest as well. Move on.
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Old 10-20-2016, 07:57 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by FIIGMO View Post
Yeah I guess I should not lecture the rubes at UAL about their own contract....

Sunvox
HEY!!! Watch it...
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Old 10-21-2016, 04:37 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by UALinIAH View Post
Not true. May want to check the pay rates on APC under United. Add 7.56% to the current rates to see what our Jan rate will be if this TA passes.

Sorry to interject, but you should really fact check. Unless you are just talking DOS - Jan 1st.



747/350/777/787/764

CA

2017 $328
2018 $338
2019 $351


FO

2017 $224
2018 $231
2019 $240

Your Airbus will be about $10 below us as well. Just saying.
By definition of our snap-up (UAL) it's impossible for DAL to get "industry leading pay" for more than a couple of weeks. If this TA was for $400/hr on the 737, it would be matched on Jan 1, 2017. The present deal at DAL would indeed be industry leading in pay. Not even CLOSE to industry standard. Our snap-up doesn't make it any less so. This is semantic argument.

The merits of the DAL TA are for them to decide, and I wish them well.
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Old 10-21-2016, 06:33 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by Herkflyr View Post
He was spot on correct. How many times did you read "it's not about the money!" (except when that was immediately followed by "don't touch my PS" so evidently it WAS about the money to some extent).

The negotiators got you untouched PS even with the shareholders irritated over the highest PS payout in corporate US history (which the perpetual "just say no" crowd dismisses with a petulant little "hmmmph!").

The negotiators got you a lot more money.

There are few to no concessions here.

The toxic LCA carveouts (which "no concessions" UAL have in abundance) were eliminated.

PS remains pensionable, unlike "no concessions" UAL.

I really don't know what the just-say-no crowd is all up in arms about, other than the fact that voting no is just fun. I doubt half of them could even tell you why they would vote no, and I doubt ANY of them actually WANT a TA that they would vote in favor of, short of something worth the entire GNP of the USA (and they would probably find fault with that).
Were the LCA trip pulls removed from the TA?
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Old 10-21-2016, 07:25 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by Moondog View Post

Were the LCA trip pulls removed from the TA?
No they were not. The methodology was changed to make it more convoluted and harder to monitor, but it's still in there and will affect both F/O's and Captains as the open time can now be pulled from either pot.
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Old 10-21-2016, 07:28 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by Moondog View Post

Were the LCA trip pulls removed from the TA?
From taprocon.com:

OE Rotation Removal
No changes to PBS
Codifies when and how much Open Time the company can withhold for training
No changes to 23G5, nor does it limit pilot ability to pick up extra time after being removed
See Language and TAprocon.com Flowchart for more detail
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Old 10-21-2016, 09:29 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by Timbo View Post
No they were not. The methodology was changed to make it more convoluted and harder to monitor, but it's still in there and will affect both F/O's and Captains as the open time can now be pulled from either pot.
From what I can tell, almost all the teeth from the OE pull have been... pulled. It's very limited use vs a large game changer from the failure last year.
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Old 10-22-2016, 09:00 AM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp View Post
From what I can tell, almost all the teeth from the OE pull have been... pulled. It's very limited use vs a large game changer from the failure last year.
This will be very difficult to monitor and you may never know which trips you could have or should have been awarded.
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