Is this for real.
10-21-2016, 08:23 PM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 191
Is this for real.
Am I the only on who thinks this is ridiculous?
Q: If a pilot has an illness, injury, that uses up the first 100 hours of sick leave (verified or not), will he then have to verify every sick leave for the next 12 months?
A: If a pilot exceeds 100 hours of sick time use in a rolling 12 bid period lookback, they would be required to verify every sick leave until they fell below the threshold. However there are some exceptions: A pilot who provides a doctor’s certificate at his expense verifying a sick occurrence for which he has used at least 100 hours of sick leave may, upon his request, not be considered to have used such sick leave hours for purposes of Section 14 F. 2. and 3., provided the sick occurrence involves: 1) the fracture of a major bone (e.g., hand, shoulder, leg, hip), or 2) an acute condition resulting in an unplanned hospital admission. Note one: Section 14 F. b. 1) will not apply if the sick occurrence is due to a chronic or degenerative condition. Note two: Section 14 F. b. 2) will not apply to an emergency room visit that does not result in a hospital admission. Note three: Sick leave hours in a sick occurrence that meet the criteria under Section 14 F. 6. b., will be counted toward the determination of a pilot’s eligibility for the exemption in Section 14. F. 6. a. In addition, if they had not used greater than 50 hours of sick leave in each of the previous 2 sick leave years, they would not have to verify for any illness in that sick leave year.(except in a case of good faith basis)
I thought the TA was supposed to sell itself. Period.
Q: If a pilot has an illness, injury, that uses up the first 100 hours of sick leave (verified or not), will he then have to verify every sick leave for the next 12 months?
A: If a pilot exceeds 100 hours of sick time use in a rolling 12 bid period lookback, they would be required to verify every sick leave until they fell below the threshold. However there are some exceptions: A pilot who provides a doctor’s certificate at his expense verifying a sick occurrence for which he has used at least 100 hours of sick leave may, upon his request, not be considered to have used such sick leave hours for purposes of Section 14 F. 2. and 3., provided the sick occurrence involves: 1) the fracture of a major bone (e.g., hand, shoulder, leg, hip), or 2) an acute condition resulting in an unplanned hospital admission. Note one: Section 14 F. b. 1) will not apply if the sick occurrence is due to a chronic or degenerative condition. Note two: Section 14 F. b. 2) will not apply to an emergency room visit that does not result in a hospital admission. Note three: Sick leave hours in a sick occurrence that meet the criteria under Section 14 F. 6. b., will be counted toward the determination of a pilot’s eligibility for the exemption in Section 14. F. 6. a. In addition, if they had not used greater than 50 hours of sick leave in each of the previous 2 sick leave years, they would not have to verify for any illness in that sick leave year.(except in a case of good faith basis)
I thought the TA was supposed to sell itself. Period.
10-21-2016, 08:56 PM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
Originally Posted by ronnie75
Am I the only on who thinks this is ridiculous?
Q: If a pilot has an illness, injury, that uses up the first 100 hours of sick leave (verified or not), will he then have to verify every sick leave for the next 12 months?
A: If a pilot exceeds 100 hours of sick time use in a rolling 12 bid period lookback, they would be required to verify every sick leave until they fell below the threshold. However there are some exceptions: A pilot who provides a doctor’s certificate at his expense verifying a sick occurrence for which he has used at least 100 hours of sick leave may, upon his request, not be considered to have used such sick leave hours for purposes of Section 14 F. 2. and 3., provided the sick occurrence involves: 1) the fracture of a major bone (e.g., hand, shoulder, leg, hip), or 2) an acute condition resulting in an unplanned hospital admission. Note one: Section 14 F. b. 1) will not apply if the sick occurrence is due to a chronic or degenerative condition. Note two: Section 14 F. b. 2) will not apply to an emergency room visit that does not result in a hospital admission. Note three: Sick leave hours in a sick occurrence that meet the criteria under Section 14 F. 6. b., will be counted toward the determination of a pilot’s eligibility for the exemption in Section 14. F. 6. a. In addition, if they had not used greater than 50 hours of sick leave in each of the previous 2 sick leave years, they would not have to verify for any illness in that sick leave year.(except in a case of good faith basis)
I thought the TA was supposed to sell itself. Period.
Q: If a pilot has an illness, injury, that uses up the first 100 hours of sick leave (verified or not), will he then have to verify every sick leave for the next 12 months?
A: If a pilot exceeds 100 hours of sick time use in a rolling 12 bid period lookback, they would be required to verify every sick leave until they fell below the threshold. However there are some exceptions: A pilot who provides a doctor’s certificate at his expense verifying a sick occurrence for which he has used at least 100 hours of sick leave may, upon his request, not be considered to have used such sick leave hours for purposes of Section 14 F. 2. and 3., provided the sick occurrence involves: 1) the fracture of a major bone (e.g., hand, shoulder, leg, hip), or 2) an acute condition resulting in an unplanned hospital admission. Note one: Section 14 F. b. 1) will not apply if the sick occurrence is due to a chronic or degenerative condition. Note two: Section 14 F. b. 2) will not apply to an emergency room visit that does not result in a hospital admission. Note three: Sick leave hours in a sick occurrence that meet the criteria under Section 14 F. 6. b., will be counted toward the determination of a pilot’s eligibility for the exemption in Section 14. F. 6. a. In addition, if they had not used greater than 50 hours of sick leave in each of the previous 2 sick leave years, they would not have to verify for any illness in that sick leave year.(except in a case of good faith basis)
I thought the TA was supposed to sell itself. Period.
What specifically do you think is ridiculous?
10-21-2016, 09:17 PM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
Originally Posted by ronnie75
That the voluntary verification is so limited. It is written so that it is unusable. The wording. Thanks for being civil.
I guess what I'm asking is what makes that concession (and I agree it is a concession) ridiculous?
Last edited by newKnow; 10-21-2016 at 09:29 PM.
10-21-2016, 09:31 PM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 191
I think everyone in their heart of hearts knows this deal is lacking. Ok stinks. I'm being honest, I seriously wanted to like this TA and vote yes. The money is ok. The sell outs are not. Billions and Billions. Industry average pay achieved. Can we please find some leadership to:
remind senior management there was no limit to what they demanded from us when times were tough;
remind senior management times are no longer tough;
remind senior management of the value of what we voluntarily surrendered to help our company in its greatest time of need;
remind senior management of the additional forced sacrifices of bankruptcy;
remind senior management of the time value of our concessions;
remind senior management of our contributions to the expedited completion of a single operating certificate post-merger;
remind senior management of the misguided use of unprecedented profits on stock buybacks;
remind senior management of the professionalism, commitment to the schedule and safety record of the Delta pilots;
remind senior management of the paramount importance of maintaining a positive relationship with its pilots;
remind senior management that protracted negotiations serve no positive purpose and only force our hand to begin informational picketing and other lawful efforts to deliver our message; and, finally,
remind senior management it’s our turn now.”
I've been a sheep, I finally woke up, anyone else?
remind senior management there was no limit to what they demanded from us when times were tough;
remind senior management times are no longer tough;
remind senior management of the value of what we voluntarily surrendered to help our company in its greatest time of need;
remind senior management of the additional forced sacrifices of bankruptcy;
remind senior management of the time value of our concessions;
remind senior management of our contributions to the expedited completion of a single operating certificate post-merger;
remind senior management of the misguided use of unprecedented profits on stock buybacks;
remind senior management of the professionalism, commitment to the schedule and safety record of the Delta pilots;
remind senior management of the paramount importance of maintaining a positive relationship with its pilots;
remind senior management that protracted negotiations serve no positive purpose and only force our hand to begin informational picketing and other lawful efforts to deliver our message; and, finally,
remind senior management it’s our turn now.”
I've been a sheep, I finally woke up, anyone else?
10-21-2016, 09:39 PM
#6
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
I don't think it stinks at all. Perfect? No. Triple? eh.... double? Probably.
I see very limited upside to no on this one with significant downside potential. Remember what is coming this November. The two most hated presidential candidates ever are up for election.
I see very limited upside to no on this one with significant downside potential. Remember what is coming this November. The two most hated presidential candidates ever are up for election.
10-21-2016, 09:39 PM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 191
Originally Posted by newKnow
Yes. That is true. The way I see it, voluntary verification is gone.
I guess what I'm asking is what makes that concession (and I agree it is a concession) ridiculous?
I guess what I'm asking is what makes that concession (and I agree it is a concession) ridiculous?
10-21-2016, 09:45 PM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 191
80 I appreciate your comments... But when is enough enough? They will keep kicking us in the shins until we stand up and walk away. I had almost resigned to saying, I'm fatigued, that's well enough, I can live with that. Until the NN that started describing what a major bone was... And that a verifiable sick occurrence had to be an unanticipated, hospital (not ER) admission. That's what woke me up. It's very clear what they are trying to do.
10-21-2016, 10:04 PM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
Originally Posted by ronnie75
That it is so limited. There is no good faith there. The wording. It will probably back fire like the 2012 sick leave they insisted on, and we agreed too. TA 2019 = "all sick must be verified" for a pay raise.
That's what happened last year, right?
10-21-2016, 10:06 PM
#10
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Originally Posted by newKnow
I think we have to take this TA for what's in this TA. The thing that's in it is that we lose voluntary verification. All sick leave must be verified is not in this one. If the company and the union tried to slide that past us in 2019, or any other year for that matter, it would be voted down and I would lead the charge.
That's what happened last year, right?
That's what happened last year, right?
It's nice to have your voice of logic, reason, and overt manliness of the DC-9 captain that you will always be back around here.
