http://www.airlinepilotforums.com Airline Pilot Central - The best information portal for active and future airline pilots en Fri, 20 Nov 2009 19:40:51 GMT vBulletin 1440 http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/misc/rss.jpg http://www.airlinepilotforums.com http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/hangar-talk/45934-joke-thread.html Fri, 20 Nov 2009 19:31:10 GMT It's been a long time since the last joke thread. Probably because there's been nothing to laugh about lately given the furloughs, paycuts, bankruptcies and all that. However, Mom (that would be me ;)) has decided that enough is enough! And it's Friday for crying out loud.

This one is not very funny, but just funny enough. Nobody can say that I don't give it a good try.

----------------------------------------------

An Englishman and a Frenchman are on a 747 and they are both on a flight to London for a meeting. The pilot comes over the PA and calmly says, "one of the engines is having trouble but we are fine to fly. Unfortunately, we will be a couple of hours late."

The Englishman is not happy at this news and complains loudly, "I have an important meeting and can't be late."


An hour later, the pilot comes back over the PA and slightly distressed says, "a second engine has gone down. Please don't worry, we can make it to London but there will now be an additional four hour delay." The Englishman comments, "I can't deal with these delays, I have important things to do."

Two hours later the pilot comes back over the PA. His voice is cracking and the stress in his voice is apparent. He says "Uh.....we have....um...a fire in an engine and have had to shut it down..... errrr...... but please don't panic...we will have an additional seven hour delay."

Well, the Frenchman is extremely worried at this. He gets up and comments, "if we lose one more engine we will be up here all day!" ]]> Hangar Talk vagabond http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/hangar-talk/45934-joke-thread.html http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/45933-preferential-bid-system.html Fri, 20 Nov 2009 19:28:15 GMT So, which regionals have PBS, and which don't? ]]> Regional The Stig http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/45933-preferential-bid-system.html http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/45932-bill-seeks-allow-airlines-access-cvrs.html Fri, 20 Nov 2009 19:00:01 GMT Bill Seeks to Allow Airlines Access to Cockpit Conversations - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125866886792856401.html?mod=WSJ_topics_obama) By ANDY PASZTOR *Sen. Jim DeMint, a Republican from South Carolina, plans to introduce a bill that would break a taboo in the airline industry:... Bill Seeks to Allow Airlines Access to Cockpit Conversations - WSJ.com

By ANDY PASZTOR
Sen. Jim DeMint, a Republican from South Carolina, plans to introduce a bill that would break a taboo in the airline industry: allowing airlines to use information from cockpit voice recorders in cases against pilots they want to discipline or fire.

Current labor contracts effectively bar major U.S. carriers from relying on information gathered from cockpit-recorders, or, in some cases, flight-data recorders to punish pilots or monitor their performance during trips. But the proposed legislation seeks to overturn those longstanding restrictions in both areas, which is already riling pilot union leaders.

The move also shines a spotlight on privacy and other complex legal questions surrounding the use of such information by airlines to make personnel decisions.

Today, cockpit voice recorder data doesn't become public or lead to actions against pilots unless there is an accident or serious incident investigated by the Federal Aviation Administration or the National Transportation Safety Board. Allowing airlines to use the information for their own personnel decisions would significantly open up an area that currently is considered to be an almost private sanctum for accident investigators.

Called the "Pilot Professionalism Assurance Act," the bill drafted by the Sen. DeMint envisions downloading voice or flight-data recorders "to discipline or discharge a pilot . . . for actions that endanger the safety or well being of passengers." The bill also proposes using previously sacrosanct recordings of cockpit conversations "to evaluate or monitor the judgment or performance of an individual pilot."

Sen. DeMint has not yet formally introduced his legislation and it is unclear what type of support it might find in Congress. The legislation is bound to face stiff resistance from both pilot unions -- and potentially the FAA and the NTSB. One of their principal objections is that the bill could put a chill on the current system of voluntary reporting of safety lapses by pilots. Currently, pilots are encouraged to file anonymous reports on safety problems that arise in the course of duty. Allowing airlines to review cockpit recordings could make pilots more reticent to report shortcomings because they might worry that they would be exposed to disciplinary action from their employer.

However, the bill comes in the wake of several commercial-aircraft accidents and incidents, including the bizarre October flight of a Northwest Airlines jet that lost contact with air-traffic controllers for more than an hour and overflew its destination. The pilots, whose licenses were revoked after the slip-up, told investigators they were engrossed in conversation about revised crew-scheduling procedures and became distracted by turning on and using their personal laptops on the flight deck.

That has created new impetus for stricter pilot oversight measures. There have been two attempts on Capitol Hill in recent weeks to draft legislation supporting installation of video recorders in cockpits. Pilot union officials successfully lobbied and managed to head off those efforts. The Air Line Pilots Association or ALPA, which is the largest pilot union in North America, is gearing up to quietly try to kill the DeMint bill before it is introduced, according to people familiar with the matter.

The escalating controversy focuses on how pilot professionalism conflicts with recent examples of distraction and lax safety standards in the cockpit. Randy Babbitt, the head of the FAA, has spoken out strongly on the need to enhance pilot performance and raise the safety bar by having larger airlines and veteran pilots mentor less experienced pilots at the smaller commuter partners.

But so far, the FAA chief has opposed drastic moves such as stripping cockpit recorders of the confidentiality they have enjoyed for decades. Currently, flight-data recorders are routinely screened for unusual occurrences, but the analysis is done privately inside each airline and the results generally don't become public.

John Prater, president of ALPA, has previously said media pressure shouldn't "lead our industry in a direction that is detrimental to the goal of accident and incident prevention."

Earlier this week. Mr. Prater put out a statement urging Congress to avoid "drafting legislation that simply reacts to events already under investigation."

Write to Andy Pasztor at andy.pasztor@wsj.com ]]> Regional JetJock16 http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/45932-bill-seeks-allow-airlines-access-cvrs.html http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/45931-no-more-cracks-ceos-mom.html Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:37:20 GMT Taken from another forum: Bill Seeks to Allow Airlines Access to Cockpit Conversations: By ANDY PASZTOR Sen. Jim DeMint, a Republican from South Carolina, plans to introduce a bill that would break a taboo in the airline industry: allowing airlines to use information from cockpit voice recorders... Taken from another forum:

Bill Seeks to Allow Airlines Access to Cockpit Conversations:

By ANDY PASZTOR

Sen. Jim DeMint, a Republican from South Carolina, plans to introduce a bill that would break a taboo in the airline industry: allowing airlines to use information from cockpit voice recorders in cases against pilots they want to discipline or fire.

Current labor contracts effectively bar major U.S. carriers from relying on information gathered from cockpit-recorders, or, in some cases, flight-data recorders to punish pilots or monitor their performance during trips. But the proposed legislation seeks to overturn those longstanding restrictions in both areas, which is already riling pilot union leaders.

The move also shines a spotlight on privacy and other complex legal questions surrounding the use of such information by airlines to make personnel decisions.

Today, cockpit voice recorder data doesn't become public or lead to actions against pilots unless there is an accident or serious incident investigated by the Federal Aviation Administration or the National Transportation Safety Board. Allowing airlines to use the information for their own personnel decisions would significantly open up an area that currently is considered to be an almost private sanctum for accident investigators.

Called the "Pilot Professionalism Assurance Act," the bill drafted by the Sen. DeMint envisions downloading voice or flight-data recorders "to discipline or discharge a pilot . . . for actions that endanger the safety or well being of passengers." The bill also proposes using previously sacrosanct recordings of cockpit conversations "to evaluate or monitor the judgment or performance of an individual pilot."

Sen. DeMint has not yet formally introduced his legislation and it is unclear what type of support it might find in Congress. The legislation is bound to face stiff resistance from both pilot unions -- and potentially the FAA and the NTSB. One of their principal objections is that the bill could put a chill on the current system of voluntary reporting of safety lapses by pilots. Currently, pilots are encouraged to file anonymous reports on safety problems that arise in the course of duty. Allowing airlines to review cockpit recordings could make pilots more reticent to report shortcomings because they might worry that they would be exposed to disciplinary action from their employer.

However, the bill comes in the wake of several commercial-aircraft accidents and incidents, including the bizarre October flight of a Northwest Airlines jet that lost contact with air-traffic controllers for more than an hour and overflew its destination. The pilots, whose licenses were revoked after the slip-up, told investigators they were engrossed in conversation about revised crew-scheduling procedures and became distracted by turning on and using their personal laptops on the flight deck.

That has created new impetus for stricter pilot oversight measures. There have been two attempts on Capitol Hill in recent weeks to draft legislation supporting installation of video recorders in cockpits. Pilot union officials successfully lobbied and managed to head off those efforts. The Air Line Pilots Association or ALPA, which is the largest pilot union in North America, is gearing up to quietly try to kill the DeMint bill before it is introduced, according to people familiar with the matter.

The escalating controversy focuses on how pilot professionalism conflicts with recent examples of distraction and lax safety standards in the cockpit. Randy Babbitt, the head of the FAA, has spoken out strongly on the need to enhance pilot performance and raise the safety bar by having larger airlines and veteran pilots mentor less experienced pilots at the smaller commuter partners.

But so far, the FAA chief has opposed drastic moves such as stripping cockpit recorders of the confidentiality they have enjoyed for decades. Currently, flight-data recorders are routinely screened for unusual occurrences, but the analysis is done privately inside each airline and the results generally don't become public.

John Prater, president of ALPA, has previously said media pressure shouldn't "lead our industry in a direction that is detrimental to the goal of accident and incident prevention."

Earlier this week. Mr. Prater put out a statement urging Congress to avoid "drafting legislation that simply reacts to events already under investigation."

Hey Senator how about if we record every interaction you have with your interns and secretaries and allow your wife to listen to them? We've got to assure your professionalism too don't we?

Here's the link if anyone wants to give this asshat a piece of their mind:

www.senate.gov - This page cannot be found. ]]> Regional JT8D http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/45931-no-more-cracks-ceos-mom.html http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/cargo/45930-ups-poolies-any-chance.html Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:33:13 GMT Longtime UPS poolies are wondering if there is any chance of eventually getting called. Anyone ever called after long, long swim? What is the record for longest swim? I could almost feel the crisp cold air as I preflighted in Alaska........ Should we give up the dream and move on? Update... Longtime UPS poolies are wondering if there is any chance of eventually getting called.

Anyone ever called after long, long swim? What is the record for longest swim?

I could almost feel the crisp cold air as I preflighted in Alaska........

Should we give up the dream and move on?

Update fax number does not even work!

No hiring dept. to call!

Any insight would be appreciated.



Johnny (gurgle... gurgle... gulp.....) ]]> Cargo johnnyPilot http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/cargo/45930-ups-poolies-any-chance.html http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/pilot-health/45929-septoplasty.html Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:13:34 GMT Just wandering if any pilots out there have had this surgery recently? I just had it and I am wondering what the outcome was for you. Just wandering if any pilots out there have had this surgery recently? I just had it and I am wondering what the outcome was for you. ]]> Pilot Health ConnectionPilot http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/pilot-health/45929-septoplasty.html http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/hangar-talk/45928-engine-overhaul-mechanics.html Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:47:02 GMT Have any of you worked for an overhaul shop? I'm graduating in December with a BS degree and an A&P and I would love to hear about this job from someone in the field. Ups, downs, pay and the like.

Thanks! ]]> Hangar Talk Jones14 http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/hangar-talk/45928-engine-overhaul-mechanics.html http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/major/45927-cvr-bill-congress-not-good.html Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:46:18 GMT Bill Seeks to Allow Airlines Access to Cockpit Conversations: By ANDY PASZTOR Sen. Jim DeMint, a Republican from South Carolina, plans to introduce a bill that would break a taboo in the airline industry: allowing airlines to use information from cockpit voice recorders in cases against pilots... Bill Seeks to Allow Airlines Access to Cockpit Conversations:

By ANDY PASZTOR

Sen. Jim DeMint, a Republican from South Carolina, plans to introduce a bill that would break a taboo in the airline industry: allowing airlines to use information from cockpit voice recorders in cases against pilots they want to discipline or fire.

Current labor contracts effectively bar major U.S. carriers from relying on information gathered from cockpit-recorders, or, in some cases, flight-data recorders to punish pilots or monitor their performance during trips. But the proposed legislation seeks to overturn those longstanding restrictions in both areas, which is already riling pilot union leaders.

The move also shines a spotlight on privacy and other complex legal questions surrounding the use of such information by airlines to make personnel decisions.

Today, cockpit voice recorder data doesn't become public or lead to actions against pilots unless there is an accident or serious incident investigated by the Federal Aviation Administration or the National Transportation Safety Board. Allowing airlines to use the information for their own personnel decisions would significantly open up an area that currently is considered to be an almost private sanctum for accident investigators.

Called the "Pilot Professionalism Assurance Act," the bill drafted by the Sen. DeMint envisions downloading voice or flight-data recorders "to discipline or discharge a pilot . . . for actions that endanger the safety or well being of passengers." The bill also proposes using previously sacrosanct recordings of cockpit conversations "to evaluate or monitor the judgment or performance of an individual pilot."

Sen. DeMint has not yet formally introduced his legislation and it is unclear what type of support it might find in Congress. The legislation is bound to face stiff resistance from both pilot unions -- and potentially the FAA and the NTSB. One of their principal objections is that the bill could put a chill on the current system of voluntary reporting of safety lapses by pilots. Currently, pilots are encouraged to file anonymous reports on safety problems that arise in the course of duty. Allowing airlines to review cockpit recordings could make pilots more reticent to report shortcomings because they might worry that they would be exposed to disciplinary action from their employer.

However, the bill comes in the wake of several commercial-aircraft accidents and incidents, including the bizarre October flight of a Northwest Airlines jet that lost contact with air-traffic controllers for more than an hour and overflew its destination. The pilots, whose licenses were revoked after the slip-up, told investigators they were engrossed in conversation about revised crew-scheduling procedures and became distracted by turning on and using their personal laptops on the flight deck.

That has created new impetus for stricter pilot oversight measures. There have been two attempts on Capitol Hill in recent weeks to draft legislation supporting installation of video recorders in cockpits. Pilot union officials successfully lobbied and managed to head off those efforts. The Air Line Pilots Association or ALPA, which is the largest pilot union in North America, is gearing up to quietly try to kill the DeMint bill before it is introduced, according to people familiar with the matter.

The escalating controversy focuses on how pilot professionalism conflicts with recent examples of distraction and lax safety standards in the cockpit. Randy Babbitt, the head of the FAA, has spoken out strongly on the need to enhance pilot performance and raise the safety bar by having larger airlines and veteran pilots mentor less experienced pilots at the smaller commuter partners.

But so far, the FAA chief has opposed drastic moves such as stripping cockpit recorders of the confidentiality they have enjoyed for decades. Currently, flight-data recorders are routinely screened for unusual occurrences, but the analysis is done privately inside each airline and the results generally don't become public.

John Prater, president of ALPA, has previously said media pressure shouldn't "lead our industry in a direction that is detrimental to the goal of accident and incident prevention."

Earlier this week. Mr. Prater put out a statement urging Congress to avoid "drafting legislation that simply reacts to events already under investigation." ]]> Major B317 http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/major/45927-cvr-bill-congress-not-good.html http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/money-talk/45926-inflation.html Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:35:16 GMT John Maynard Keynes, Father of modern economics. 1886 - 1946

Keynes, in warning about the menaces of inflation, said:

"By a continuous process of inflation, governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens. By this method, they not only confiscate, but they confiscate arbitrarily; and while the process impoverishes many, it actually enriches some"

Some believe that the federal government can run up the national debt to as much as they want only then to use inflation as a tool to minimize the impact of the debt over time. Most every governemnt economist knows of Keynes concepts and some have been accused of using this approach in the past.

It is possible that governments are using inflation as a secret tax. The implications of inflation are especially grave to those who save instead of invest and are stuck on a long term contracts with their employers.


Skyhigh ]]> Money Talk SkyHigh http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/money-talk/45926-inflation.html http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/pilot-health/45925-ame-tampa.html Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:42:22 GMT Just moved from the east coast and need a new doc. Anyone have someone to recommend in the TPA area? Just moved from the east coast and need a new doc. Anyone have someone to recommend in the TPA area? ]]> Pilot Health FlyingViking http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/pilot-health/45925-ame-tampa.html http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/money-talk/45924-long-term-unemployed.html Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:24:11 GMT I have been following this MSNBC series of articles on the people of Elkhart County, Indiana. Very interesting and a sad commentary on what this economy has done to ordinary people, people like those interviewed in the series, people like you and me. Long-term unemployed face dwindling options*... I have been following this MSNBC series of articles on the people of Elkhart County, Indiana. Very interesting and a sad commentary on what this economy has done to ordinary people, people like those interviewed in the series, people like you and me.

Long-term unemployed face dwindling options* - The Elkhart Project- msnbc.com

Now I am not looking for a heated discussion on politics (which is not allowed on APC anyway), but I have to say that employer taxes are a big factor in why I had to layoff my barista. I am all for hiring more people for my coffee shop, but when business is slow and some days the meager revenue is not even enough to pay for coffee beans, I still have to pay my barista plus the employer taxes out of my own pocket. So it was with great regret that I had to let him go.

Not sure what to do except hang on and hold out as long as I can. After all, I cannot and will not disappoint Nicholas, my Chocolate Kid. Oh, a customer! Gotta go. ]]> Money Talk vagabond http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/money-talk/45924-long-term-unemployed.html http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/major/45923-question-jumpseating-out-tpe-nrt-ua.html Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:22:18 GMT Quick question about the jumpseating procedures on UA out of TPE & NRT. I will be traveling as an OMC out of TPE on 26NOV and assume I will just check in to the ticket counter as I have done in SYD before. I am curious if I will need to exit the secure area in NRT to go to the ticket counter or will the agents be able to process my OMC status there at the gate. I know in SYD i had to pay around 75.00 will they be able to accept payment at the gate in NRT? Thank you in advance if you can help me out. Also would it be best for me to list on those two legs prior to leaving the USA?

Thanks again. ]]> Major SiouxCFI http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/major/45923-question-jumpseating-out-tpe-nrt-ua.html http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/cargo/45922-abx-new-contract.html Fri, 20 Nov 2009 14:22:25 GMT I heard the Crews at ABX signed a new contract. Any truth to this? Info, details? I heard the Crews at ABX signed a new contract.

Any truth to this? Info, details? ]]> Cargo Boxdog http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/cargo/45922-abx-new-contract.html http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/foreign/45921-ice-pilots-buffalo-joe.html Fri, 20 Nov 2009 09:48:50 GMT This looks like a great show. I did not work for Joe, but I did work for a few guy's like him.

I can't get the streaming show off of History Television Canada as I'm in Amsterdam and it says not available in your country. I'll try again when I get to China, but will that be any better. Yes I tried a proxy server. Bugga.

Anyway, for those of you able to view it do enjoy. ]]> Foreign KoruPilot http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/foreign/45921-ice-pilots-buffalo-joe.html http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/cargo/45920-any-info-southern-air-747-ops.html Fri, 20 Nov 2009 09:31:30 GMT On my commute to work today I ended up sitting beside a guy who is a "flight mechanic" I believe is the word he called himself for Southern Air. We got to talking about our jobs and his QOL sounded a lot better than mine. Since he wasn't on the pilot side of the house I wasn't sure how much of his QOL stuff was also applicable to pilots. I looked around online and noticed that they were not hiring, but I am still interested in the normal pay and QOL issues. I saw the pay rate on APC, but wondering what min and avg monthly pay credit is. I'm a captain at a regional now and I basically want to know if I should keep this company on my "hiring radar"... I did a search on here, but the stuff I found was from 2005 and 2006...so not exactly current. ]]> Cargo Great Cornholio http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/cargo/45920-any-info-southern-air-747-ops.html