MikeB525

Hi all,

There has been a lot of talk in the past few days about pilot inexperience, profession degradation, and so forth. A lot of people have compared us with Europe and have suggested that there needs to be more "barriers" for people entering the ranks of airline flying.

Being the precise person I like to be, can anyone suggest what this means? Who exactly needs to kept out of the flight deck of a CRJ or 737? Can we get some precise suggestions in terms of:

-Training background (NO civilian vs military arguments!!!)
-Certificates and ratings
-Practical experience (e.g. flight hours)
-Academic backgrounds
-Medical standards (no obesity, etc)
-Key "whole person" factors (IQ, personality, etc.)

rickair7777

The US is unique compared to other nations...we have a thriving general aviation segment. Our entry-level training system is designed to cater to that...a brand-new US CPL is an adequate qualification to fly a light trainer, but nothing more than that.

Europe does not have GA (except for the ultra-wealthy), so their entire training system is geared towards professional turbine pilots from day one.

If it were up to me, all pilots (PIC and SIC) of large turbine powered aircraft in the US would have to hold an ATP. Then I would raise the standards for an ATP, make it similar to Europe with more academics and theory. Too many US professional pilots have a knowledge of aerodynamics and systems which is based on rote memorization, without actual comprehension of the underlying theory. I'm not advocating requiring an engineering degree, but a little more fundamental understanding of things. Frankly, if you do not understand basic DC electrical theory, you have no business operating an turbine airplane...

Keep the 1500 hours required for an ATP. If it becomes impossible to staff airlines due to too many low timers, you could go to a european-style frozen ATP where you do all the work, take all the tests and checkrides, but do not actually hold an ATP until you get the flight time. You could allow a frozen ATP to sit SIC.

As for additional screening...

Keep all the medical stuff with the medical people (including psychiatric). It would not hurt to tighten up on cardiovascular and body weight...that would actualy force some people to do themselves a favor and live better.

I'm not in favor a formal screening based on academics, although it would probably be a good idea to have a screening test for professional applicants...kind of like MCATs. I would not want to exclude somebody based on high school academics, give them a chance to grow up and develop the initiative to meet the standards.

RVSM Certified

Your question was, who should be screened out? That requires an objective evaluation not born of pure philosophy, pure politics or pure ideology.

I cannot speak as a pilot, but I can speak as a part 121 passenger and I can speak about the objective qualities I'd like to see in my Captain.

As a passenger, I want my Captain to be [above all] fully competent and demonstrably capable of performing correct tasks under the pressure of life and death - bottom line. As a passenger, this is what I want to know are firmly in place.

There are lots of people in the world who can knock the ball out of the park, when there is no pressure involved. Place them under just a small amount of heat and their cognitive ability suffers significantly and thus their physical ability is hindered as well. As long as the waters are calm and smooth, as long as things are predictable and expected, some people can climb mountains and perform at high levels. Introduce real pressure into the equation and not everyone of those calm, fair weather performers can maintain the same tempo of performance. We see this demonstrated in all walks of life, not just flying airplanes.

This is of course, Human Factors related. So, how do you simulate life and death scenarios and make it real? Good question - and I don't have a rock solid answer excepting those military pilots with actual combat experience where they actually dealt with life and death decisions.

The second attribute that I'd like to see in my Captain, is the ability to be a cross functional thinker. That is, one who can think globally and act locally. One who is both a Strategic Thinker and a Tactical Implementer. Often times, in high pressure corporate environments, I witnessed people who where PhD educated and awesome strategic thinkers. However, place that same person into a mission critical business situation and their real-time cognitive functioning seems to drop to that of a very advanced high school graduate.

They can't make solid decisions, they are constantly second guessing themselves, they are often times indecisive and bottom line insecure in their own ability to do the right thing involving leading people in a time of crisis and/or high pressure. Place them back into the lab, or get them back into their office where no mission critical decisions have to be made, and they are once again a world class, highly educated, highly capable and very productive PhD performer.

I think this speaks to the ability of a Captain to be able to properly prioritize, analyze, categorize and compartmentalize incoming data and then mentally firewall all cognitive functions that hinder mission critical physical performance. Now, unlike the life or death scenarios, this is something you can test, measure and evaluate objectively without political, historical, personal and/or philosophical bias.

Either the candidate has this capacity, or they don't.

When Tiger Woods loses, he does not make any excuses - ever. He wins not because he's the most physically gifted person on the PGA Tour, but because he's the most mentally prepared person on the PGA Tour. This is what separates Tiger, from the rest of the tour, on most Sunday afternoons. No matter what happens to Tiger on the golf course, his brain, like a heat seeking missile, finds a way to focus on those things that must get done [mission critical to him] to bring home another victory and collect another check - big checks.

Anyone knowing anything about how hard golf is physically to play well day in and day out, understands fully what it would mean to play with a busted ACL. Virtually, impossible - most golfers would say. Yet, this is exactly what Tiger did and he did it during a Major Tournament and won - ACL knee and all.

Nothing but the ruthless ability to mentally firewall the pain and everything else inside of you telling you to quit, give up and go home could possibly account for even being able to finishing the tournament, let alone actuallying win it.

So, mental strength and mental agility, are very important things that I'd like to know were in my Captain. Because if something goes wrong at FL380 @ .80 mach and it is within the Captain's ability to get us on the ground safely even if we need to make a crash landing, then I want to know that he/she has the kind of mind that won't break down under mission critical pressure.

There are a lot of people who simply cannot do that and you have to wonder, when the chips are down and mental toughness is required to save human life through a mission critical event mid-air, is everbody currently in the left seat of a 121 operator capable of making it happen. [assuming pilot input can solve the problem, of course]

Ski Patrol

I'm curious about your DC comment I thought the CRJ was an AC plane? Not flaming here just looking for info.

As for all the academic stuff....well I've taught book smart people who were geniuses but would crack when the heat turned up. I dunno it takes a different type of person to function when the screws are turned up. Some people are both some are one or the other.

tzadik

the engine driven generators produce AC power and the transformer recitifier units or TRU's (4 or 5 depending on model) convert it to DC.

rickair7777

It has both, along with pretty much all larger turbine aircraft...DC is easier to understand than AC, so I was cutting our applicants a break

atpcliff

Hi!

Don't forget the Civilian pilots with COMBAT time, which are becoming more and more prevalent.

Barriers?
We don't knee any. There is a BIG shortage of pilots right now, and it's getting worse and worse because less and less people have the money/ability to get loans to do flight training, vs. the motivation of the career expectations.

Obviously, there's no physical pilot shortage TODAY in the US, but that's because Age 65 just happened to change at the same time there was this economic down-turn. Once the Age 65 thing is sorted, the airlines will be begging to make the training quicker/easier/cheaper so they can fill their pilot seats, even here in the US.

cliff
GRB

Poser765

The problem is the more hurdles one must overcome the more rewarding the occupation needs to be. Look at doctors. They go through all sorts of crap to become one, but at the end is a potential pot of gold. Now lets look at pilots. Sort of like becomeing a doctor but not getting doctor pay. Who would go to med school and all the junk after for a garunteed 22k a year?

rickair7777

Correct. Set the barriers based on achieving a certain safety level, even with relatively low time pilots, and then let the chips fall where they may. If the airlines need to increase pilot compensation, so be it

SmoothOnTop

Good thread.

No offense to meant to Capt. Sully, however, I have flown with quite a number of 1000 hour wonders that would have reacted similarly to the dual engine shutdown and made a nice wings level splashdown.

I have also flown with 16,000 hour pilots that can't handle a change in runway request by atc.

How do we ensure we have the best?

Scenario based training, with multiple malfunctions at the same time.

First officers and copilots should be checked the old way - single malfunction at a time.

Captains must be checked/typed with simultaneous multiple malfunctions.

Sully didn't face a single malfunction...