sellener

1)

My question relates to the endorsement required by a CFI to take the CFI practical test.

Does the instructor that endorses you to take the practical have any requirment (besides perhaps good judgement) to log training with the CFI student in a complex aircraft?

My question arises from a situation where I have a CFI i know who i like, but does not have access to a complex aircraft.

I have not found anything that says i need to log complex time with an instructor.

I have to have an endorsement on the Areas of Operations of the CFI portion of part 61, which doesnt say anything about a complex aircraft?

Without scouring the regs, my position would be no.

I have my complex endorsment from my commercial certificate, and besides having to supply a complex plane for the CFI ride itself, I dont see where or why i would have to log complex time (outside of the requirments for the commercial certificate) for the CFI practical endorsement.

Any thoughts?

NoyGonnaDoIt

There is nothing in 61.187 that states a certain amount of training in a complex aircraft is required to be logged.

As you noted, good judgment is a separate issue.

Ewfflyer

You better just be prepared to teach in it. I would recommend doing some training with someone on the aspects involved with the complex aircraft. If you really like this person, get them authorized to use the plane, or just use their instructor and still have the other guy sign you off for the check ride. 100 ways to go about it.

Fly Boy Knight

Without having the CFI PTS in front of me, I think you DO need it for two reasons...

1. To be eligible for a CFI, you must have a Commercial and Instrument Rating and you do need it for the commercial license (don't know how many hrs exactly but I know you need some complex training to get a CPL)
-NOTE: Older pilots (before complex training was mandated for the CPL) can have a commercial with out a complex endorsement (my father for example) if they got their commercial before that requirement was signed into law however...

2. The CFI checkride must be done in a complex airplane. To act as PIC of a complex airplane, you need a complex endorsement. According to 14 CFR Part 61.47, the Examiner does NOT act as PIC during a checkride and since the only other pilot aboard the airplane is the applicant, the applicant during a checkride is the PIC and if the applicant is the PIC, he/she MUST HAVE A COMPLEX ENDORSEMENT.

rickair7777

That wasn't the question, he already has a complex endorsement.

He wants to know if he has to log training time in a complex airplane with the CFI who signs him off for his CFI ride.

The answer would be no IMO. The regs do not appear to require it as they are written. But if you fail the flight test and the DPE notices that you didn't train in a complex airplane, he might raise the issue with the FSDO...could get the CFI called on the carpet.

But I doubt anyone would notice unless you screwed up something related to the gear or prop, and the DPE asked about your training.

ryan1234

rick had it good...

It's kinda like the requirement for CFI groundschool... sometimes it just depends on the FSDO...may not be written, just understood as good practice... the examiner may look at your logbook beforehand and tell you he's not doing the ride (or worse, doesn't tell you but fails you for some reason)

I don't know why anyone wouldn't want to log time in the right seat with a person whose taken the same checkride giving instruction in the same aircraft for the checkride.

Fly Boy Knight

Yeah. Helps if I RTFQ. Lol