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Zero to MEI with AllATP or USAA?

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Zero to MEI with AllATP or USAA?

Old 08-28-2014, 11:15 PM
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Default Zero to MEI with AllATP or USAA?

Hi everyone. I am planning on attending a 0-MEI flight program, so far I have found two popular programs ATP and USAA .

ATP Flight School: Airline Career Pilot Program Flight Training Timeline
Zero Time Through Certified Flight Instructor Multi Engine (MEI) Professional Pilot Program | 866-383-2400 | US Aviation Academy | 4850 Spartan Drive, Denton, TX 76207

I been reading a lot of great things about ATP however as everyone mentioned there is a deep price of $69,995 vs USAA's $49,500. USAA also seems like a big school but they seem to be a bit less organize with their information. ATP provides detail on everything for their program, while USAA's information for the program seems to be missing a lot of important information, such as timeline and schedules.

On top of it ATP is fixed cost, while USAA stated there can be additional cost, however there is $15,000 different between the two programs. Can someone me insight and experience on each program? Especially student life, time building after MEI and transaction to regional airline.

ATP stated the program is 180days however it is 7days a week 8 hours a day. I don't mind the workload but is there anytime for catch up with work if there is a part that I miss? I am not a slow person by any means but I like to be prepare.

Also quick bio about me 30 years old mid career change from the financial field. I am not wealthy but I can get by with financial my own training. In the last few months, I decided working in the financial field is not something that I wanted to do for my whole life, and I always wanted to be a pilot so I decided I will pursue a career being a pilot.

Please let me know which school is better or if there are better 0-MEi programs out there. Thanks a lot for reading my post.
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Old 08-29-2014, 03:31 AM
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Where are you located? Are you planning on relocating to do your training? There are tons of schools that can get you all the ratings and done that fast. ATP is expensive because they have lots of brand new airplanes and half of your time is in multiengines which brings up the price a bit. What ATP doesn't tell you is that if you require extra training, the multiengine airplanes are priced at $400 an hour.

My advice would be to go and visit several schools and look at their planes, talk to instructors and students and get a feel for the places, and see what kind of program they can tailor to you. As long as a school has enough planes and instructors, you shouldn't have any problem finishing in a short amount of time.
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Old 08-29-2014, 04:40 AM
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To add on to that ATP will be more expensive then that with the required items and the checkride fees, but I'm sure USAA doesn't include checkride fees either. Personally between the two (I looked at both) ATP is what I'm in now. Partially because USAA was really sketchy with the information they were giving out (I don't think they have a lot of domestic students). Also at the time ATP was only 64,995 and I liked that half the training is in the multi. I know it comes up in 2 days so you don't have much time to make a decision, but if you register before September 1st then you would be able to do it for the $64,995 instead of 5k more.

As far as life goes and time to breath and what not, they do say that you'll need 8 hours a day (sometimes more). But also as long as you keep your instructor informed of what's going on, you could have them slow down slightly. A few weeks ago I was doing about 2 flights a day, then for the weekend we didn't fly at all so I could get caught up on the knowledge portion of everything. You'll learn a lot of it by feel and what not, but as far as ATP goes it is also accelerated.

I've personally have enjoyed my time at ATP and feel the training is top notch. Some days also if you need a break, you may just fly and then take the rest of the day for yourself. For example yesterday morning I flew and was done by noon, then took the rest of the day to relax and give my brain a rest.

I don't know much about other flight schools and what not as I made my decision to go to ATP fairly quickly. A lot of people will complain about the pilot mill type programs and they have their reasons, but so far (still working on my private) I've enjoyed my time at ATP. One other thing I forgot to mention is ATP offers a guaranteed instructor job to build hours to the magical 1500, but also pretty much any other flight school is hiring right now. Good luck on your search!
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Old 08-29-2014, 05:37 AM
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Thanks for the detailed reply. Yes thats why I made this post because I am thinking about committing to ATP within the next two days to save the $5,000.

They had free housing for PHX, but all three of the spots were gone within few hours last night and that was my original plan. I am currently in Asia, so I can literally go to any location for flight trainings. My current plan is to go back in early Oct and starts in Nov. Sucks without the free housing but I looked it up on craigslist $600 a month can get me a decent room to myself so I am really spending $3,000 more compares to the "$5,200" saving from the free housing

I thought PHX, AZ would be the best since it is supposes to be the best place to learn to fly same as TX, FL and NV, but PHX is closest to So Cali 4-5 hours drive which where I live for 8+ years still have many friends there, easy for me to commute. So if I have to pick now Mesa would be my ideal location.

By the way does the Multi engine hours that much more valuable within the first 250 hours? I assume after I get my MEI the hours I get from 250 or so to 1500 majority of that would be from Multi engine, is that correct?

I will actually give USAA a call right about now and see what they say about the timeline, housing and job after the program. I will provide updates. Once again thanks for all the replies.

Last edited by pkan51; 08-29-2014 at 05:40 AM. Reason: Multi engine question.
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Old 08-29-2014, 06:29 AM
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Default Zero to MEI with AllATP or USAA?

ATP is actually still only $65,000 as of TODAY and this will be the last day to book that price and save the $5,000 as it will hold your class date which must be before October 31st to still get the lower price. I'm actually on the way to view Concord/CLT to compare it to RDU and sign my class date today and lock in the lower price.
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Old 08-29-2014, 06:33 AM
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Default Zero to MEI with AllATP or USAA?

For your question regarding ATP program I can tell you that I have done a ton of research leading up to this decision and yes it's expensive but they meet my needs I believe by getting my ratings and being able to instruct. The guy I talked to in Raleigh yesterday has been there since November '13 and has about 1000TT and of that over 400hrs are ME time. That's doing pretty well in my book, good luck!
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Old 08-29-2014, 07:25 AM
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The price quote of $49,500 includes everything from headsets to check rides. However, keep in mind those are minimums. I have added here a full quote for 0-MEI using well above minimum required hours. This means you could do it for less than the Professional Pilot Program quote of $66, 416. You will see on the side details including how much the check rides, books, and other items are, all of which are included in the total training cost. To make that price more comparable you might pull out the cost of check rides which ATP does not cover, making US Aviation Academy about $5,000 cheaper. However, if you believe you are studious and capable pilot, you could train in less time than quoted here and reduce the cost further. Good students are rewarded at US Aviation Academy.

The program sheet gives an estimated total duration but timelines and schedules will always be off. Some students take a long time to get their private but instrument comes to them easily. Others wiz through private and struggle in instrument. Some blow right through all of them. In short, we believe 12 months is a good estimate for the total program but where exactly those 12 months are spent will depend heavily on the individual (not to mention the weather).

I hope this gives you the transparency you were looking for.

At US Aviation Academy we follow the same curriculum for both part 61 and part 141 training. The biggest advantage to training under 141 is that the minimum flight times for each license is reduced which will save you money. We also have 141 self-examining authority which means you will take your check ride with one of our senior staff as opposed to the FAA or a DPE.

US Aviation Academy students have the option of staying in our convenient student apartments while attending the academy. These furnished apartments are less than ten minutes from our campus and give students the opportunity to get acquainted with others in the training program. This is by no means required, but may be a useful option if you want to live in the student environment and not deal with housing or transportation.

US Aviation Academy, like most flight schools right now, is hiring CFIs and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. Flight schools around the country are struggling to keep CFIs when regional airlines are offering huge bonuses as soon as they meet ATP minimums (1500 hours, 23 years old, with 50 hours of multi-engine time).

Our current new instructor incentives are:
• $500 Signing Bonus
• High volume flight training, build hours very quickly averaging 75-100 flight hours billed
• Excellent in-house maintenance (including Avionics) to keep you flying safely
• Fly our King Airs in the Turbine Transition Course
• Advancement options within the growing organization
• Paid Standardization class
• Corporate housing provided for up to 4 weeks.
• Great programs and discounts to help you earn your MEI rating
• Senior instructors can earn benefits including vacation time, health care and retirement plan.

American Eagle (Envoy) Airlines has partnered with U.S. Aviation Academy to develop a career path from CFI to Regional Airline Pilot. This exciting new program gives the pilot a secured position at American Eagle Airlines while building time towards the ATP minimum flight experience requirements. Not only does the program provide this streamlined career path, but instructors are hired and employed by American Eagle while they are still instructing!

What does this mean for the CFI? It means that while flight instructing, you have medical, dental, and vision benefits, as well as travel privileges on American Airlines and American Eagle! Once Pipeline Instructors reach the ATP minimums and 50 hours of multi-engine experience, they are placed into new hire pilot training at American Eagle in the next new hire class.

US Aviation Academy has also started working with Republic Airways to provide another career path to our CFIs.
Attached Files
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Professional Pilot Program.pdf (49.0 KB, 37 views)
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Old 08-29-2014, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by kingsnake2 View Post
The price quote of $49,500 includes everything from headsets to check rides. However, keep in mind those are minimums. I have added here a full quote for 0-MEI using well above minimum required hours. This means you could do it for less than the Professional Pilot Program quote of $66, 416. You will see on the side details including how much the check rides, books, and other items are, all of which are included in the total training cost. To make that price more comparable you might pull out the cost of check rides which ATP does not cover, making US Aviation Academy about $5,000 cheaper. However, if you believe you are studious and capable pilot, you could train in less time than quoted here and reduce the cost further. Good students are rewarded at US Aviation Academy.

The program sheet gives an estimated total duration but timelines and schedules will always be off. Some students take a long time to get their private but instrument comes to them easily. Others wiz through private and struggle in instrument. Some blow right through all of them. In short, we believe 12 months is a good estimate for the total program but where exactly those 12 months are spent will depend heavily on the individual (not to mention the weather).

I hope this gives you the transparency you were looking for.

At US Aviation Academy we follow the same curriculum for both part 61 and part 141 training. The biggest advantage to training under 141 is that the minimum flight times for each license is reduced which will save you money. We also have 141 self-examining authority which means you will take your check ride with one of our senior staff as opposed to the FAA or a DPE.

US Aviation Academy students have the option of staying in our convenient student apartments while attending the academy. These furnished apartments are less than ten minutes from our campus and give students the opportunity to get acquainted with others in the training program. This is by no means required, but may be a useful option if you want to live in the student environment and not deal with housing or transportation.

US Aviation Academy, like most flight schools right now, is hiring CFIs and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. Flight schools around the country are struggling to keep CFIs when regional airlines are offering huge bonuses as soon as they meet ATP minimums (1500 hours, 23 years old, with 50 hours of multi-engine time).

Our current new instructor incentives are:• $500 Signing Bonus
• High volume flight training, build hours very quickly averaging 75-100 flight hours billed
• Excellent in-house maintenance (including Avionics) to keep you flying safely
• Fly our King Airs in the Turbine Transition Course
• Advancement options within the growing organization
• Paid Standardization class
• Corporate housing provided for up to 4 weeks.
• Great programs and discounts to help you earn your MEI rating
• Senior instructors can earn benefits including vacation time, health care and retirement plan.
American Eagle (Envoy) Airlines has partnered with U.S. Aviation Academy to develop a career path from CFI to Regional Airline Pilot. This exciting new program gives the pilot a secured position at American Eagle Airlines while building time towards the ATP minimum flight experience requirements. Not only does the program provide this streamlined career path, but instructors are hired and employed by American Eagle while they are still instructing!

What does this mean for the CFI? It means that while flight instructing, you have medical, dental, and vision benefits, as well as travel privileges on American Airlines and American Eagle! Once Pipeline Instructors reach the ATP minimums and 50 hours of multi-engine experience, they are placed into new hire pilot training at American Eagle in the next new hire class.

US Aviation Academy has also started working with Republic Airways to provide another career path to our CFIs.
The ATP Program prices DONT include examiner fees, and materials actually.
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Old 08-29-2014, 08:27 AM
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Negatives about ATP:

Lots of below average instructors there, why? Because they zoomed through their flight training and have no idea what they are doing!

ATP cares about one thing, MONEY. They don't care about your flight training experience or going at your speed. When you start to complain about anything in training, ATP doesn't have a problem reminding you what you signed up for and that you will be charged more or dropped from the program if you decide to deviate from the plan.

Oh yea and that guaranteed instructor job they're flashing in your face? Here's how that works: All across the country at ATP locations, wanna be aviators are progressing through their flight training at break neck speed, learning by fire hose, hopefully retaining some knowledge. Once a student is done with their program, they are offered the awesome instructor position at ATP.The student will then go to Florida where they will go through the ATP instructor training course. Then will you go instruct? No, because there will not be any open instructor positions at any of the training facilities.

In the meantime, you'll be in Florida at their call center, taking calls from the next group of saps until an instructor position opens up somewhere. When a spot opens, regardless of whether or not you want to go to that training center, that's where you're going. Forget being able to pick where you instruct, although they may allow a change later on.

So now a brand new instructor goes off to teach for the first time in a an area of the country that they may be completely unfamiliar with, the making of a recipe for disaster. Oh and remember how you sat in the call center waiting for an instructor spot to finally open? There will be lots of guys behind you wanting your instructor position and ATP can't just keep filling up the call center, they need instructors to leave and if they need to, they will help you leave so they can keep moving people along. Make one little slip up and you'll be told your services are no longer required.

As an instructor, ATP will pay you with a 1099, meaning you are never truly an ATP employee, you're just someone doing contract work for them, so getting rid of you at the drop of a hat is easily done. Oh and by the way, enjoy that 1099 come tax season.

Don't do ATP, it's designed to make them money, not to help you become a good pilot.
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Old 08-29-2014, 09:13 AM
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Don't mean to dispute or try to argue with you worksweekdays... But half of what your saying isn't necessarily true. As far as instructors having no clue what they are doing, I'm just gonna say my instructor is very knowledgeable.

In regards to the call center issue and having to work there, that use to be the case where you would have to work in Jacksonville for a while. But now because they pay so crappy for flight instructors, they are having trouble finding enough flight instructors. Sure some locations have just the right amount so you may not be able to go where you want, but right now they are currently having the issue of not enough instructors.

I honestly don't know what I'll be doing after finishing flight school, hopefully instructing for ATP. But if not then I will definitely be looking elsewhere. ATP is expensive and it kind of sucks in terms of pricing, but when you compare it to other places I definitely think it has been worth it so far. I'm already at nearly 55 hours after 3 and a half weeks and am right now slated to be done in about 5 to 5 and a half months.

The guy who posted for US Aviation Academy posted a lot of good information, and part 141 may not be bad. But personally after graduating college I knew I couldn't wait 12 months and wanted to be done as soon as possible. Also training in brand new aircraft doesn't hurt, both of the Archers that I have trained in had like 70 and 200 hours max flight time.

It's a decision you don't want to rush (one that took me a couple months), but ATP so far has been good for me and I'm not afraid to share that information with others. Especially as there is usually such negative backlash with ATP on these forums.
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