I know what I'm getting into (or at least I think I know what I'm getting into) I thought I made that clear in my first post.
I have a problem though:
I wanted to be a pilot ever since I was seven and I am not analytical, or powerful enough to deny my dream and do something else.
I tried, I did the state school thing ... but my mind is always in the airplane.
I did toy with the idea of quitting this whole flying thing and go to law school ... but I think I will be miserable.
I would rather do this and fail than doing something else and asking myself my entire life "What if ...?"
Well you obviously don't know what you're getting into. Again, what does school have anything to do with flying? So what if it's boring?? Get your education first. Flying will always be there. School will not, it will get impossible. Do not leave school to fly. What will you do with no education? I was furloughed, and litteraly you have no skills out in the real world. It's either WalMart or unemployment. Experience flying a plane does no good to anyone. It sucks.. get your education, and on something non aviation related.
If you're hooked on flying, then do what many have done, go to school and fly on the side. If you can't do both financially then that is your problem which you will have to solve. Get a job at Burger King. The solution is not by spending 100K-200K and going in debt.
AirWillie thanks for taking your time to give me a heads-up I sure do appreciate it.
Here is some more information about myself:
- I'm stubborn
- I'm willing to fail. One of my favorite quotes is "If You've Never Failed, You've Never Lived"
- Like many of you, I've wanted to be an airline pilot ever since I was a little kid. Unfortunately (or fortunately?) this dreams can not be changed by an internet topic.
- Because it is a dream I am emotionally involved => this means I can't be 100% analytical and cold blooded about it.
- I am trying to be realistic about it, I don't have extreme expectations ... as a matter of fact I don't have any expectations*. As long as I'm flying ... I will be happy (NO! I will not be a scab, and I will not work for free but if peanuts is what everyone is getting ... I won't mind peanuts)
I am sure you are right, you've seen the promised land (and in some of your cases that promise land was a dump).
Because I am young, stubborn (and maybe foolish) I want to go to the promise land myself and do my own judging.
* I do have goals and I do have a plan but I am very flexible about it.
Status update (if anyone cares):
ERAU is no longer my top choice ... my top choice is now UND.
- If you have the time, I am still waiting for an answer to this questions:
Quote:
I have a question for a recent graduate of UND (Commercial Aviation or Flight Education major)
How much did the whole thing cost you (an estimate)?
1) Did you have any previous flight experience?
if yes ... what did you have to do to get credit for it (remedial training, mock check-rides etc.)
2) Did you live on campus?
3) What do you think about Grand Forks?
4) Did you establish residence in ND?
P.S. I read that ERAU costs 100,000$ more than UND, is that acurate?
P.P.S. I think I am willing to fight the freezing temperature ... I read some horror stories about the guy/girl ratio at ERAU + I am not willing to fork 200,000$ to go to ERAU when I can pay 100,000$ to go to UND (is that about right?).
- I am trying to get the best information I can from their websites ... but it's kinda hard to pick and choose around all the kool aid and bull****
- As you can probably tell I am pretty much all over the place (when it comes to choosing a school) ... the lack of factual information is the problem (I'm trying to get 3rd party info about this 3 schools ERAU, UND, Kent but almost everything I read is biased)
P.S. I'm not afraid of death/dying ... I'm afraid of those 10 seconds right before I go. I'm afraid of looking back and seeing many broken dreams and asking myself many "what if?" questions.
Last edited by CRMcaptain : 09-29-2009 at 07:57 AM.
I just want to add that the #1 thing you can do in this business to be successful is to network. And I don't mean start lame-o conversations with every beat pilot in the fbo/terminal who is at the end of their 14hr duty day. I mean keep in contact with everyone you work with, train with, study with, career centers, instructors. Your career will ebb and flow along with all of us and you want to know who to call and what areas to explore to keep yourself on the right trend. People will remember you if you have the right attitude, ethic, personality.
I graduated from Riddle '02 PRC. I had a great time. Flight training is great and most of the degree classes are excellent. However the program now cost more than double what it cost me and with perspective I would not do it under the current cost structure.
In your age of training it may be a challenge to find experience in 6-pack style instruments, but I would suggest to try to find it even if the bulk is in G-whizz style dashboards. With the industry as saturated as it is many of the direct bridge programs and such will not be as prevalent and you may have to actually build time before going to an airline, or god forbid you may not want to fly an RJ. I have yet so see a cargo Baron, or a canyon tour 206 with a G1000. Or you might want to ditch the airline gig as many of us have and try fractional or corporate. You don't want to be a 3-4000 hour guy jumping in to Flight Safety for your Beechjet/lear/hawker type and face the dreaded 6-pack for your first time.
As a final note to emphasize my original suggestion. Network. So far I have done flight instructing, 135 cargo, BE-1900 commuter airline, charter/fractional. My Alma Mater did not place me in any of those positions. Every one of them was developed through networking and staying genuine to the people and career I enjoy.
Second, I cannot recommend Riddle as a school nowadays and I am a '93 grad from there. I would go to a normal school such a Auburn, Perdue Or Kent State that also happen to have flying programs. That way you will get the real college experience and fly at the same time.
Don't go to Perdue. They may think you're crazy trying to fly one of their chickens. Purdue OTOH is an excellent school with the traditional college life.
Networking is the key no matter where you end up. I wear a school lanyard with my ID and you'd be surprised how many other people you meet just because of that.
I'm a private pilot (with about 110 hours - got most of them while training for my Instrument Rating).
I am not your average kid seduced by the (empty) promises of sparkles, shiny jets and hot flight attendants.
I know about the 15 hours days, I know about the instability of this industry and I am familiar with the fact that I will be working for peanuts.
Truth be told ... I've seen the "other side". I don't like working in sales, I don't like the degree I am going for right now (International Relations) and I DON'T LIKE ****ty flight schools.
I've seen a few ...
- I've studied at a flight school in PA that had good instructors (well, actually it was only one person) but it was always threatened by bankruptcy. Old airplane, well they had two ... but one of them got grounded because they didn't have the money to overhaul the engine.
I love scraping ice from the wings (10 F) because they couldn't afford a hangar (it goes without saying that sometimes I couldn't remove all the ice, and as a student pilot ... that didn't know any better, I didn't say anything about it ...the results were not always pleasant - I did learn my lesson after I got scared ****less while taking off ... and the CFI was pretending that nothing happened)
- I've studied at a flight school in TX. I know there are some very nice places in Texas, and even though this place was only about an hour north of Dallas ... it felt like the redneck capital of the world.
Very shady outfit ... even though it was part 141.
- no 50 hours inspections
- I am pretty sure I was more up to date with the IFR flying than the CFII (or with the regs)
- It did have the coveted G1000 avionics ... but what's the use for that when the CFII doesn't teach you the systems?
"well ... uh ... you'll learn it on the go"
"fair enough but for my piece of mind, I want to buy the G1000 book"
"Uh ... we ain't selling that here" (say it with a Texan accent ... so texan that it was hard to understand)
I want to be a professional pilot, I love flying ... it is an amazing experience. I also want to be a very good pilot (I know ... you will say that I can learn to fly anywhere but from my experience that is not the case)
I don't want mediocrity ... I want to be the best pilot I can possibly be, and get the best training I can possibly get.
* I am not rich, I will have to take loans.
The plan:
I want to transfer to an aviation college, here are my choices:
1) Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University (many people told me that they are the best, they are also rather expensive ... but I am willing to pay if the quality is good.)
2) UND (I have a friend that graduated from there ... it seems like a fine school. I am not too excited about living in North Dakota though)
3) Kent State University (this is the backup plan)
I think (from my calculations) that UND is about 10000$ cheaper per year (I might be wrong, the part of their website that states the price for flying is not working for some reason, so I am estimating). I am willing to pay the money if I get a better education at ERAU.
What do you guys (and girls) think about this three schools? Am I completely nuts to be forking this much $ considering the state of the industry?
I know only one thing ... I am done with your Mom 'N' Pop's flight schools!
I never attend this college but I am from the northern michigan area and have alot of friends who have went threw the program and loved it. Not trying to endorse it anyway just throwing out a suggestion.
Before you spend any more money are you sure you qualify for a 1st class medical? I don't recall you stating what class medical you have for the training you have done so far.
Before you spend any more money are you sure you qualify for a 1st class medical? I don't recall you stating what class medical you have for the training you have done so far.
I was talking about the fact that some schools choose to have a 50 hours inspection. I think that's the smarter way to do it.
I am convinced that there are some nice FBOs out there ... but I didn't find any (within 1 hour drive).
P.S. Another reason for it is because I've been flying for 4 years (3 part 61, 1 part 141) and I only have 110 hours. Part of it is because of money (I worked my way through it) and part of it was because of the lack of instructors, flight school bankruptcy and the selling of the flight school to the highest bidder (that happened to be an *******) .
If a 50 hour inspection makes you feel good, so be it. Personally, I don't like having a mechanic working on a perfectly good airplane. I have seen some come out of a check with more squaks than when they went in.
No nice FOBs within an hour? What defines "nice"? Pretty painted airplanes? Fancy lobby? How about a good mechanic and hard nosed instructor. And what difference make how far away it is? Aren't you planning on moving to whatever college you choose?
You only flew 110 hours in three years because of money. Money is only going to get tighter, and the four year schools will only give you 250ish hours over four years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CRMcaptain
I want to thank everyone for their answers!
I have a question for a recent graduate of UND (Commercial Aviation or Flight Education major)
How much did the whole thing cost you (an estimate)?
P.S. I read that ERAU costs 100,000$ more than UND, is that acurate?
P.P.S. I think I am willing to fight the freezing temperature ... I read some horror stories about the guy/girl ratio at ERAU + I am not willing to fork 200,000$ to go to ERAU when I can pay 100,000$ to go to UND (is that about right?).
These pages were not hard to find: searched "cost" on the school's site. Just how hard are you researching?
Sooo, let's do the math. $200,000 loan at 6% means monthly payments of $1432 for 20 years. If you want to make the payments a little more manageable, you could to $1199 for 30 years. Just remember, starting regional pay is about $1800 per month before taxes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CRMcaptain
I know what I'm getting into (or at least I think I know what I'm getting into) I thought I made that clear in my first post.
I have a problem though:
I wanted to be a pilot ever since I was seven and I am not analytical, or powerful enough to deny my dream and do something else.
I would rather do this and fail than doing something else and asking myself my entire life "What if ...?"
What if I had stayed in the navy.... I would have just finished my 20 years and gotten a retirement.....
What if I had taken that offer with Mountain Air 10 years back? I'd be at $50k flying a Caravan.... $60k in the F27
You can what if yourself nuts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CRMcaptain
- Like many of you, I've wanted to be an airline pilot ever since I was a little kid. Unfortunately (or fortunately?) this dreams can not be changed by an internet topic.
- Because it is a dream I am emotionally involved => this means I can't be 100% analytical and cold blooded about it.
- I am trying to be realistic about it, I don't have extreme expectations ... as a matter of fact I don't have any expectations*. As long as I'm flying ... I will be happy (NO! I will not be a scab, and I will not work for free but if peanuts is what everyone is getting ... I won't mind peanuts)
I am sure you are right, you've seen the promised land (and in some of your cases that promise land was a dump).
Because I am young, stubborn (and maybe foolish) I want to go to the promise land myself and do my own judging.
So, you have a dream of the promised land..... a certain bunch of folks spent 40 years in the dessert before reaching the promised land.
If you really want to see what those first few years is like, try this:
Take a job, any job, and work 12 hours per day four days in a row. Take two days off, but they can't be the weekend (added bonus if you work over any holiday). For you labor, you bring home $1200 per month (remember taxes, insurance, and maybe paying for your uniform). Find an apartment, pay your car insurance, and buy food on that monstrous salary. (Hint, store brand Ramen tastes just like the name brand; Totinos pizza tastes like cardboard, but is filling; nicotine quells hunger pains, but even Bugler is getting expensive Gr8cigars.com - premium cigars and tobacco). Now you are livin' the dream.
Find a community college, start there, transfer to a 4 year school, live at home if possible, major in anything unrelated to aviation, work as much as you can, save your money, find a good FBO and go fly.
AirWillie thanks for taking your time to give me a heads-up I sure do appreciate it.
Here is some more information about myself:
- I'm stubborn
- I'm willing to fail. One of my favorite quotes is "If You've Never Failed, You've Never Lived"
- Like many of you, I've wanted to be an airline pilot ever since I was a little kid. Unfortunately (or fortunately?) this dreams can not be changed by an internet topic.
- Because it is a dream I am emotionally involved => this means I can't be 100% analytical and cold blooded about it.
- I am trying to be realistic about it, I don't have extreme expectations ... as a matter of fact I don't have any expectations*. As long as I'm flying ... I will be happy (NO! I will not be a scab, and I will not work for free but if peanuts is what everyone is getting ... I won't mind peanuts)
I am sure you are right, you've seen the promised land (and in some of your cases that promise land was a dump).
Because I am young, stubborn (and maybe foolish) I want to go to the promise land myself and do my own judging.
* I do have goals and I do have a plan but I am very flexible about it.
Status update (if anyone cares):
ERAU is no longer my top choice ... my top choice is now UND.
- If you have the time, I am still waiting for an answer to this questions:
P.S. I'm not afraid of death/dying ... I'm afraid of those 10 seconds right before I go. I'm afraid of looking back and seeing many broken dreams and asking myself many "what if?" questions.
You need some real perspective on what you are saying. Calling the regional airlines "the promise land" is such a ridiculous statement. You should do what you want but spending a bunch of money on school is ridiculous and you will hurt everyday you are living in regional life.
Go to a JC for 2 years and transfer to a 4 year and do your flying at a 61 school on the side.
However I do feel you are like most who come on here and ask for advice, ignore it, and do what they were going to do anyways.
However I do feel you are like most who come on here and ask for advice, ignore it, and do what they were going to do anyways.
He wasn't asking on being a pilot. He was asking about going to erau or und. Here is my answer... NEITHER. You think(O.P) going to a place like erau or und would be cool because you're with fellow pilots? EVERYDAY: I'm going to be a fighter pilot, my relative is a CA at fedex, I'm going to Southwest or Alaska, virtually everyone there will think they are going to be a successful CA at UPS or FEDEX because they spend 150 grand on their education. Now imagine the females, if you can find them... usually with very large egos because they're pilots with everything to prove, not to mention they can get anyone... You're going to go crazy in just a few months. First of all, they're not your friends, they're you competitors and you can only talk so long about flying before you have brain lock. I think someone here even said they never got any job because of erau. But that's not the point. Go to college and expand your horizon. Any idiot can open up a FBO, you don't need to go to college to learn aviation. Go learn biology or business or Engineering or chemistry something that's worth something.
__________________
It's OK everybody......... does anyone know how to fly a King Air?
Last edited by Purpleanga : 10-01-2009 at 11:08 AM.
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