SF Flyer

I'm an Army C-12 (B200) driver with about 2 years left. I need to make a big decision this November, and again next August, so I'm gathering information now.

Situation at Retirement(Aug07): 2100TT, 1200FW/ME/Turb of which 700PIC, ATP, with about a 24,000 retirement income when I reach my first opportunity to retire in August 07.

Ten years ago, I left one of the best career fields in the Army to fly helicopters. I worked very hard as a CH-47 guy, and was lucky enough to be selected for the Army's FW program. I've been completely hooked on flying since flight school, and it really is the only thing I want to do when I retire. I currently fly for OSACOM, the military mini commuter/fractional, and it is awesome. I plan/coordinate/operate the whole mission with my co-pilots, and we fly into every type of airport in all kinds of conditions, with all kinds of passengers and cargo.
Right now I'm sitting behind a desk in Baghdad for the next 10 months. When I return, I'll be right back at it as a PIC/Insructor building 400 hrs/yr, and I'll be in the driver's seat regarding moving/assignments. I'll be able to drop retirement if they try to screw me into a job I don't want. In November of this year, the Army is going to ask me for another 4 year commitment for a bonus of 12,000 per year.

I need advice based on the above, relative to starting out in the industry. Two cases:
1. I get out at 41yrs old in 2007 with the time mentioned above, a mortgage that is more than covered by my retirement pay, a wife that works, and a living location that we love near Seattle.
2. I get out at 44yrs old in 2010, with 3300TT, a slightly bigger retirement check, but no guarantee on where we'll be stationed, wife's job, etc.

Will the difference in TT really help that much, since I'm only getting about 400/yr anyway?

Would a Gulfstream V rating change the equation?

Thanks in advance,
John

__________________
Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid
~John Wayne

LAfrequentflyer

I'd get out at 41 with the times listed above...You'll be more than qualified...If anything get your CFI/CFII/ so you can have someone else pay for your hours while you interview / wait for the jobs...If you can afford it buy your own plane and fly / rent it out to people looking to build hours...


I only wish i was in your shoes...I'll be retiring in 2013 after 20 years in the AF, also at 41, without much more than a PPL and maybe 700 hours...If I get lucky and the wife gets a good job we may look into buying a c152 in the next few years...

God bless and keep your head down in Iraq...

V/r,
Cajun's Fan

__________________
"First, decide who you would be. Then, do what you must do."

gtwnwa

I flew for the Navy till 1988. Have been with a major since then. You need to consider that you will likely NEVER improve your position on the outside. The flying is there, the rigors are worse, with less total job satisfaction (in most cases). The pay and benefits will not be matched (unlike 17 years ago). Consider it an "out"...when YOU decide it is time to get out.

Hope it helps.

gtwnwa

SkyHigh

You will be very dissapointed with civilian flying. I have seen it many times. The planes are junk and no one respects you. I was recently offered a job flying a B200. The pay was 33,500/year. I was supposed to be on duty 24 hours a day 7 days a week. There were no benifits of any kind. I was also expected to put in hours in the apple packing shed. I would stay in as long as you can. There are few truely good jobs in civilian aviation and by the time you get out there could be a few thousand more unemployed pilots out there.


SkyHigh

dhc8fo

I have to agree with the guys who say to stay in. My better half is a helo pilot in the Navy and pays the bills for us. Your time isn't all that high for a good corporate gig fresh out of the gate 9without any connections), and I am certain you don't want to go to a regional and make peanuts and get treated like crap as well.

I recommend that you start networking in the civilian side. Pick up trips when you can on your time off and start building relationships BEFORE you get out. If you meet the right people, your time won't be an issue regardless of what it is. You can get out and then slide right into a nice cushy corporate job.

Too many of our friends get out with nothing lined up THINKING they are qualified and confident that something will fall into their laps. Don't take this wrong, but it has been my own experience that you guys are so accustomed to being able to pick and chose, and not having to starve and be go-getter about whichever job you get next because you will get one that pays the bills either way, you tend to come out with that mentality. These guys ALL ended up going back into the reserves just so they could get decent flying opportunities UNTIL that job came along that they should have had lined up in the first place.

Take as much money as you can from the military, especially if you like what you are doing, meet some good corporate people and start flying with them while you are still in (in that case you have the choice of whether to fly for free if you want also), and then as your time draws near, make a plan and get out. I sure wish I could do that.

My better half has nine years until her 20 and she is already starting to set herself up for aviation on the outside. We went through this (are going through it) and the money is just too good and too stable to let go too soon. Just some food for thought.

Good luck and thanks for your service.

8out

You need at least 1000TT Turbine pic before you leave.

On_the_Fence

I have been in the military now for 8+ years and flying for most of it. I currently have 2500 hours // 1500 PIC in heavy jets and I am able to get out next summer. I figure I will pick another 400 hours by then (nearly all PIC). I am thinking about getting out and trying for one of the airlines. I saw pre 9/11 figures showing if you got out all the way up to 14-15 years it was better than staying in the military, I figure those numbers are not standing up anymore.
What do people recommend now in regard to staying in or getting out?

What are the advantages/disadvantages of an airline like SWA vs. UPS/FEDEX?

Due to the whole job insecurity thing I have considered staying in except for the very discriminating factors that I don't like it anymore, I am sick of moving (next one will be OCONUS with two young kids), and the bonus sucks. What do people on the other side advise?

SkyHigh

You are paid well,and you have great benefits. In the civilian world you still have to move but they don't pick up the tab and there is no bonus. There are thousands of well qualified and experienced pilots out there. There are no guarantees that you will get hired anywhere. It will take years or decades before you see the left seat again in the civilian world. You may never make the same money. I would stay in if I were you. I would go in if I could.

SkyHigh