US Pilots at Foreign Airlines
05-19-2006, 02:39 AM
#11
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Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
Posts: 5,902
Originally Posted by BURflyer
Can you actually fly pax at these airlines or do they actually send the new pilots to cargo divisions? Like Cathay,Singapore,Eva seems like it. greenDOG can you fly pax or are these contracts just for cargo flying?
Crews from other airlines probably layover at the same hotels as you will... which means you can play with their F/As rather than your own which is not a bad thing either.
On another note however, pay may be different for the cargo kaninous (latin for freight dogs).
05-19-2006, 06:06 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: A320 capt
Posts: 161
answer
like all aviation questions this has a least 100 different answers, if you are going "overseas" i`d assume you are not satisfied with your stateside job, everybody`s 1st choice would be to stay home, but from reading comments on this site i`d say aviation in the US is in a mess, generally oversea companys pay better but you will have to have an "open mind" about cultural differences. and if your a "family man" you will have mucho problems.
05-21-2006, 03:04 AM
#13
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Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Right Seat 744
Posts: 946
Originally Posted by AirWillie
I think people have forgot to mention that most of these arlines with an exception of few such as Cathay and Emirates, require you to have some experience around 500 hours in the planes you will be flying. I was looking at the Singapore website and it said that you need 500 hour of 747/a340 and typerating experience to qualify. I was thinking to myself if I already was flying the 747/a340 why would I look for a job there?
06-17-2006, 02:01 PM
#14
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Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: Heavy FO
Posts: 49
Originally Posted by BURflyer
Can you actually fly pax at these airlines or do they actually send the new pilots to cargo divisions? Like Cathay,Singapore,Eva seems like it. greenDOG can you fly pax or are these contracts just for cargo flying?
I believe Cathay hires into passenger fleets as SO based in HKG and into cargo fleets as FO for USA bases. The expatriate pilots at Singapore fly cargo as far as I know.
06-20-2006, 03:19 AM
#16
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Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: Heavy FO
Posts: 49
EVA has a program where a few pilots are based on the west coast. The options depend on aircraft type and seniority. I've heard stories of these bases working out well for some pilots. Some of the bases open and close so I don't know how reliable it is.
06-28-2006, 07:30 AM
#17
Guest
Posts: n/a
There was some very interesting fallout from this article containing Brian Murray's name on PPrune... He is a tricky little sonofa*****. There were some factual errors in the article, originally published in the Wall Street Journal, then largely re-printed in the daily "Emirates Today".
Murray was heavily critiqued by his colleagues at Emirates for being economical with the truth.
There was a long rambling post on the thread defending Murray, and quoting some highly personal details in his defence...
It was discovered by some sharp eyed guys at Emirates, that the post as "Tartan Guy" which defended Murray was actually Murray himself.
Murray's posts were subsequently all deleted on PPrune by a super moderator, who had the ability to over-ride the thread moderator...
My point is that just because it is in print, doesn't mean its true. Mr Murray has been more than disingenuous, he is a liar. He shouldn't be trusted, nor should the article.
Caveat emptor
Adios amigos
Murray was heavily critiqued by his colleagues at Emirates for being economical with the truth.
There was a long rambling post on the thread defending Murray, and quoting some highly personal details in his defence...
It was discovered by some sharp eyed guys at Emirates, that the post as "Tartan Guy" which defended Murray was actually Murray himself.
Murray's posts were subsequently all deleted on PPrune by a super moderator, who had the ability to over-ride the thread moderator...
My point is that just because it is in print, doesn't mean its true. Mr Murray has been more than disingenuous, he is a liar. He shouldn't be trusted, nor should the article.
Caveat emptor
Adios amigos
06-28-2006, 02:34 PM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: tri current
Posts: 1,485
Originally Posted by hiplanesdrifter
There was some very interesting fallout from this article containing Brian Murray's name on PPrune... He is a tricky little sonofa*****. There were some factual errors in the article, originally published in the Wall Street Journal, then largely re-printed in the daily "Emirates Today".
Murray was heavily critiqued by his colleagues at Emirates for being economical with the truth.
My point is that just because it is in print, doesn't mean its true. Mr Murray has been more than disingenuous, he is a liar. He shouldn't be trusted, nor should the article.
Caveat emptor
Adios amigos
Murray was heavily critiqued by his colleagues at Emirates for being economical with the truth.
My point is that just because it is in print, doesn't mean its true. Mr Murray has been more than disingenuous, he is a liar. He shouldn't be trusted, nor should the article.
Caveat emptor
Adios amigos
Since you are calling someone a liar for their quotes in this article lets dissect the quotes, shall we?
Nearly two years ago, at age 51, Brian Murray took early retirement from US Airways. The pilot was outraged by the airline's termination of his pension plan and worried about his future with a carrier sliding toward bankruptcy court for the second time.
But Capt. Murray's flying career was far from over. Today he lives in Dubai and flies wide-body Airbus A330s for fast-growing Emirates Airlines, winging to exotic destinations in Europe, Africa and Asia. He's home more than he ever was at US Airways, and his total compensation package -- including health care, housing allowance, retirement plan and vacation -- is superior. He says his wife and children enjoy living in the United Arab Emirates, and "from a professional standpoint, it couldn't be better."
But Capt. Murray's flying career was far from over. Today he lives in Dubai and flies wide-body Airbus A330s for fast-growing Emirates Airlines, winging to exotic destinations in Europe, Africa and Asia. He's home more than he ever was at US Airways, and his total compensation package -- including health care, housing allowance, retirement plan and vacation -- is superior. He says his wife and children enjoy living in the United Arab Emirates, and "from a professional standpoint, it couldn't be better."
Capt. Murray, who flies out of Dubai, says safety standards are high at Emirates, and its 1,350 pilots from 70 nations speak fluent English. He says pilots are "treated with respect in this part of the world. We're driven to work. We're put in four- and five-star hotels, on the concierge floors. Captains are treated as vice presidents of the organization."
= mostly true. Pilots are treated with respect, much more so than in the USA. We are driven to work = True. Mostly 4 and 5 star hotels, but not always on the concierge floors = mostly true. I wouldn't know what a VP is treated like so couldn't comment. This was probably the most disliked quote in the article = An exaggertion for sure, but still a personal opinion = Can't say it's a lie.You call him a liar, but where did he lie ? The PPrune gaff was pretty bad, I admit. I called him at home and told him it was dishonest and he should apologize. But again, how pathetic was it that someone googled his name and dragged out an article from over ten years ago about some very personal stuff and posted it on Pprune ?
You guys are all the same. You don't like positive people. For some reason you are unhappy therefore nobody else is allowed to be happy. Sorry, I'm not buying it. I'm happy, I like my job. Working overseas is not for everyone. A lot of people came to Emirates for the wrong reasons and regret their decision, but that isn't Emirate's fault.
Could Emirates be better ? Absolutely it could be better, but it's still a lot better than many of the alternatives out there.
TP
06-28-2006, 06:48 PM
#19
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Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A332/A340
Posts: 69
TP, I have no idea who you are, but you have always seemed reasonable and I suspect if we met, we'd get along. Having said that, I think in your interest to provide a balance to the EK negativity, you've gone from balanced to overly positive.
First of all, I like EK for the same reasons you do. My family and I like Dubai, warts and all. We researched what we were getting into and got what we expected and wanted.
However, there's one thing you overlook about EK because it didn't affect you. As near as I can tell, you were either accelerated or a DEC on the 777. I was not so lucky. I was assigned the Bus 3 1/2 years ago. I was over 40 when hired with lots of command time, albeit on smaller jets. EK was sold as a career airline and hadn't hired DECs in 10 years. I qualified for accelerated command and was assured, in writing, that I'd be upgraded "probably" in 18 months but "guaranteed" in 3 years. Since then, the rules have changed 4 times and presently there are no written rules. I'm now in my mid-forties, stuck in the right seat for maybe another year and well over my budget. To hammer this home, I can't afford to send my kids to the American school which is reputed to be the best. I bet you can. I don't get "concierge" service at the 3 new hotel deals - that's for Captains only. I go back home to Canada in Economy. You and Brian enjoy upgrades. I don't send home money every month. I'm just treading water. If I was 29, it wouldn't matter, but at my age, this is killing me.
You see, you benefited from these changes. Fair enough. But pause for a second and wonder "what if?" What if EK decided they didn't fancy the 777 and stuck with more Buses. You'd be sitting in the right seat and I'd be enjoying what I was promised. You may not be so positive on these forums.
I advise my friends, the people I care about, not to come to EK because it's too much a gamble. On these forums, I really try to just be balanced and let them decide.
What Brian did in this article was misleading and his follow-up on PPRUNE was pathetic. I'm glad you called him and told him to apologize. It shows you're a class guy. It shows what he is that he didn't do it.
Anyway, enough rambling. I just want to point out the other side of the EK experience. Overall, like I said, life is good. I'm still happy to provide honest answers to questions on these forums.
Regards.
First of all, I like EK for the same reasons you do. My family and I like Dubai, warts and all. We researched what we were getting into and got what we expected and wanted.
However, there's one thing you overlook about EK because it didn't affect you. As near as I can tell, you were either accelerated or a DEC on the 777. I was not so lucky. I was assigned the Bus 3 1/2 years ago. I was over 40 when hired with lots of command time, albeit on smaller jets. EK was sold as a career airline and hadn't hired DECs in 10 years. I qualified for accelerated command and was assured, in writing, that I'd be upgraded "probably" in 18 months but "guaranteed" in 3 years. Since then, the rules have changed 4 times and presently there are no written rules. I'm now in my mid-forties, stuck in the right seat for maybe another year and well over my budget. To hammer this home, I can't afford to send my kids to the American school which is reputed to be the best. I bet you can. I don't get "concierge" service at the 3 new hotel deals - that's for Captains only. I go back home to Canada in Economy. You and Brian enjoy upgrades. I don't send home money every month. I'm just treading water. If I was 29, it wouldn't matter, but at my age, this is killing me.
You see, you benefited from these changes. Fair enough. But pause for a second and wonder "what if?" What if EK decided they didn't fancy the 777 and stuck with more Buses. You'd be sitting in the right seat and I'd be enjoying what I was promised. You may not be so positive on these forums.
I advise my friends, the people I care about, not to come to EK because it's too much a gamble. On these forums, I really try to just be balanced and let them decide.
What Brian did in this article was misleading and his follow-up on PPRUNE was pathetic. I'm glad you called him and told him to apologize. It shows you're a class guy. It shows what he is that he didn't do it.
Anyway, enough rambling. I just want to point out the other side of the EK experience. Overall, like I said, life is good. I'm still happy to provide honest answers to questions on these forums.
Regards.
06-28-2006, 10:31 PM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: tri current
Posts: 1,485
Hi BC:
I'm glad you've come over here to APC and started posting. You provide good information. There are a few of these PPrune hit and run negative posters showing up here now and again who have an agenda. One of the reasons I seem so positive at times is that I am constantly trying to counter their negativity. To provide a counter-argument, if you will.
I'm also glad that you posted your experience and feelings about Emirates and Dubai. It provides balance. You've done it in an unemotional way without any agenda other than to inform. If you have read our other threads on Emirates here you'll find that most of the negative aspects have already been covered at length. The cost of housing, the costs of schools, time to upgrade, etc. it's all there for someone to research.
At no time have I ever told somebody that I think they should choose Emirates over Fedex, UPS, SWA, and a few others. At no time have I ever told a young guy that they should pursue a career as an expat overseas, actually quite the opposite, I discourage it. I provide information on EK as it is a viable alternative for some people. It works very well for some people depending on their goals and expectations.
I understand your frustration with the Airbus upgrades and DECs. I'm sure that is one of the root causes of so much negative posting on PPrune. I've said it before publicly and I'll say it again, I wouldn't have come to Emirates as an F.O. if they were hiring DECs at the time. At my age it would have been too great of a risk. I knew that getting onto a widebody would be a better long term career move. I did take a risk and it has paid off. The risk is now much greater that the DEC hiring is here, but it is an acceptable risk for some. Even with DECs EK is upgrading well over 100 pilots this year.
Four years or five years to an upgrade is still a lot better than many alternatives. Seventeen years after I was hired by a U.S. major and I can't even hold right seat in a lav truck in Philly.
People on PPrune complain about policy changes that have some slight negative affect on their working hours or upgrade times. Legitimate complaints, but put in perspective for a second don't seem to be that bad. My union voted to terminate my pension plan. I did not have a vote in that. $600,000 gone, just like that. Now that is something worth complaining about. Twenty years to hold narrow body captain, that is something worth complaining about. $76/hour before taxes for an 18 year narrow body F.O., that is something worth complaining about.
Typhoonpilot
I'm glad you've come over here to APC and started posting. You provide good information. There are a few of these PPrune hit and run negative posters showing up here now and again who have an agenda. One of the reasons I seem so positive at times is that I am constantly trying to counter their negativity. To provide a counter-argument, if you will.
I'm also glad that you posted your experience and feelings about Emirates and Dubai. It provides balance. You've done it in an unemotional way without any agenda other than to inform. If you have read our other threads on Emirates here you'll find that most of the negative aspects have already been covered at length. The cost of housing, the costs of schools, time to upgrade, etc. it's all there for someone to research.
At no time have I ever told somebody that I think they should choose Emirates over Fedex, UPS, SWA, and a few others. At no time have I ever told a young guy that they should pursue a career as an expat overseas, actually quite the opposite, I discourage it. I provide information on EK as it is a viable alternative for some people. It works very well for some people depending on their goals and expectations.
I understand your frustration with the Airbus upgrades and DECs. I'm sure that is one of the root causes of so much negative posting on PPrune. I've said it before publicly and I'll say it again, I wouldn't have come to Emirates as an F.O. if they were hiring DECs at the time. At my age it would have been too great of a risk. I knew that getting onto a widebody would be a better long term career move. I did take a risk and it has paid off. The risk is now much greater that the DEC hiring is here, but it is an acceptable risk for some. Even with DECs EK is upgrading well over 100 pilots this year.
Four years or five years to an upgrade is still a lot better than many alternatives. Seventeen years after I was hired by a U.S. major and I can't even hold right seat in a lav truck in Philly.
People on PPrune complain about policy changes that have some slight negative affect on their working hours or upgrade times. Legitimate complaints, but put in perspective for a second don't seem to be that bad. My union voted to terminate my pension plan. I did not have a vote in that. $600,000 gone, just like that. Now that is something worth complaining about. Twenty years to hold narrow body captain, that is something worth complaining about. $76/hour before taxes for an 18 year narrow body F.O., that is something worth complaining about.
Typhoonpilot
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