Pilots helping pilots
View over 100 airline profilesAdd to Google



Go Back   Airline Pilot Central Forums > Airline Pilot Forums > Foreign
Register FAQ Advertising Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Foreign Airlines that hire U.S. pilots

Reply
 
LinkBack (1) Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-12-2009, 05:43 AM   #21 (permalink)
Gets Weekends Off
 
Skyone's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: B777 Left
Posts: 414
Default

Well, thank you TP, and of course I have the white hair to prove my "experience".

Ah, L'speed, er grasshopper, I hate to say it, but your posts seem a bit naive about the world of expat flying and the experience you may undergo if you make it to KAL. TP is so on the money when it comes to training and its expectations. It is a different world out there for all us "foreign legion" pilots.

What we are all trying to say, BUYER BEWARE. I will repeat, please do not go out and buy your rating to get in the door at KAL. It is very likely to end up as a 360degree revolving door. Much of their training is demeaning and insulting. I hope you know that this isn't the best training method to use with highly highly experienced pilots.

If you have done your homework, you should know that KAL has in the past, had one of the worst safety records of any international airline. And much of it had to do with the culture within flight operations. It took a retired pilot VP from Delta to straighten things out. And they were for a while. But the culture of intimidation continues. I can't imagine a copilot telling a national captain that he is doing something wrong. Read a chapter in the new best seller "Outliers" about culture and safety within the airline industry. It gives some wonderful examples of what was going on at KAL. It appears from all aspects that this culture is starting to creep its way back into things-starting with training. YOU WILL NOT BE EVALUATED ON PUBLISHED SOP, BUT RATHER WHAT THAT PARTICULAR L.I.P.'s TECHNIQUES ARE. And you better know them before hand. That, sir, is straight from a current 777 captain I just spoke with yesterday.

Wow, your assesment of fit......TP, make sure I ground myself for not being fit. Let's see, I need a knee replacement, arthritis starting to creep in, a bit too many deserts are starting to show, etc. etc. I think it's called aging. If one is sick or injured, absolutely sick out. But FIT? We better put the age limit down to about 35 then, 'cause that about when it all starts. And when was the last time I pulled more than 1.5 gs in an airliner. If I'm going up in the shuttle, pulling 9 gs in ACM, or making a case two recovery aboard the boat at night-oh hell yeah, I'm not fit.

Take all my banter above and throw it out of the window. I will ask the question again. KAL probably has one of the best, if not the best, expat contracts going. Commute anywhere they fly twice a week. Outstanding pay. Positive space biz class, upgradable to first for commuting, 13 days in a row off every month-man that's all very good. Then why after 5-8 years of advertising this contract with every hiring agency out there, are they still looking for pilots on all their fleets? Why is it they have not filled their quota of pilots? Certainly plenty of qualified pilots on the streets right now from forced early retirement to furloughs. The devil is the details.

I think we have beaten this bad boy to death. Have at it L'speed. And truely, good luck to you. I wish no ill will towards anyone looking for a job. But go in with both round eyes wide open, be prepared to be humiliated as a professional, and even with glowing training reports, you just might not make it. And if I were without a job right now, I would be begging at their door; bad knees and all.
__________________
S1
Skyone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2009, 09:04 AM   #22 (permalink)
Gets Weekends Off
 
Zapata's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: DC-10 FO
Posts: 473
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyone View Post

What we are all trying to say, BUYER BEWARE. I will repeat, please do not go out and buy your rating to get in the door at KAL. It is very likely to end up as a 360degree revolving door. Much of their training is demeaning and insulting. I hope you know that this isn't the best training method to use with highly highly experienced pilots.
Remember, if you did a 360, you're going in the same direction which would mean that you're still on the same training path. Did you mean 180?
Zapata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2009, 12:08 PM   #23 (permalink)
Gets Weekends Off
 
Skyone's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: B777 Left
Posts: 414
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapata View Post
Remember, if you did a 360, you're going in the same direction which would mean that you're still on the same training path. Did you mean 180?
Maybe a good catch. If you start at point A and go in a circle and you end up at the same spot, "outside" the door, I would say that's a 360. I wondered the same when I wrote that. But as you said, if you are going in and end up going out then it's a 180. But if a tree falls in the woods......way too much time on my hands. Is it the direction you're pointing or is it the spot you end up at? Your position may be the same -outside, trying to get in (360), or as you say walking in, then walking out (180)? Off to India tomorrow, so I should be really confused when I get back.
__________________
S1
Skyone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2009, 02:20 PM   #24 (permalink)
Gets Weekends Off
 
rotorhead1026's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: The Far Side (of Ohio)
Posts: 423
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyone
It is very likely to end up as a 360degree revolving door
Actually, if the argument is restricted to the proverbial "revolving door", as inferred, the 180 vs. 360 argument is somewhat trivial. A 360 degree revolving door might be equivalent to being trapped in a training cycle. From what I've heard about Korean training, that sounds undesirable. A`180 degree door would mean being "spat out" and sent back home - also undesirable (if you really need the job).

Now in other areas (exiting thunderstorms, for example), confusing 360 with 180 might be painful.

Off to India, huh? Just got back in March, myself.
rotorhead1026 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2009, 02:56 PM   #25 (permalink)
Gets Weekends Off
 
Zapata's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: DC-10 FO
Posts: 473
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyone View Post
Maybe a good catch. If you start at point A and go in a circle and you end up at the same spot, "outside" the door, I would say that's a 360. I wondered the same when I wrote that. But as you said, if you are going in and end up going out then it's a 180. But if a tree falls in the woods......way too much time on my hands. Is it the direction you're pointing or is it the spot you end up at? Your position may be the same -outside, trying to get in (360), or as you say walking in, then walking out (180)? Off to India tomorrow, so I should be really confused when I get back.
well yes but, taking into account magnetic variation in Korea.....ahhhhh!
__________________
Trying to figure out who sucks more, John Wayne or Chuck Norris.
Zapata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2009, 10:23 PM   #26 (permalink)
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 275
Default

I'm glad the arguing in this thread is making more sense on both sides!
dutch747 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2009, 11:39 PM   #27 (permalink)
Gets Weekends Off
 
B757200ER's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: B-757 Captain
Posts: 1,093
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lighteningspeed View Post
Sounds to me like you are bitter because you got turned down by the KAL. I have several friends who work there and they all seem very happy and none of them said their instructors make them feel like Koreans "invented flying" as you call it.
Not bitter at all; it was a great experience. I'm telling you like it is: They let 3 777 CAs from DL and CO go while I was there, and after getting debriefed by them on how disorganized, discriminating and arrogant they were towards each of these very experienced senior pilots, I'm glad I didn't get hired and take a huge risk towards losing what I have. You won't know this until you go yourself, but they may have fixed the 777 program by then.

I heard 744/A330 programs were okay. Only 777 program was a problem.
B757200ER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2009, 12:51 PM   #28 (permalink)
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 107
Default

Shouldn't one get hazardous duty pay on top of normal salary for flying over there?
AirbusA320 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2009, 09:48 PM   #29 (permalink)
Gets Weekends Off
 
taylorjets's Avatar
 
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: Perferably in BFS , hold the caviar.
Posts: 571
Default

If it is commutable, where do you live while in Korea waiting to begin or end a trip?
__________________
Never stop defending Brooklyn...
taylorjets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2009, 04:47 PM   #30 (permalink)
On Reserve
 
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Posts: 11
Default

When one is a "grasshopper" it is wise to listen with silence and quick to silence one's own voice.

I would listen with respect when "TP" or "Skyone" shares their experience, or anyone else that has gone through what they have gone through.

Damm... I do missed the international flying!

TP... how is your family? Your Son must be pretty big by now?
worldliner777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

LinkBacks (?)
LinkBack to this Thread: http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/foreign/39839-korean-airlines.html
Posted By For Type Date
Foreign on Airline Pilot Central Forums | BoardReader This thread Refback 05-13-2009 07:17 PM

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
South Korean Airlines Stay Clear Of North vagabond Foreign 1 03-06-2009 08:40 AM
Article-Smaller airlines' pilots have less ex Flatspin Regional 43 02-16-2009 08:45 PM
Airlines sue the FAA over rest rules EWRflyr Major 2 01-09-2009 04:12 PM
American Airlines Considers Ala Carte Pricing vagabond Major 16 10-12-2008 01:07 PM
FDX - Airlines Balk at Indy Hub Bill DLax85 Cargo 3 08-30-2008 08:00 PM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:09 PM.


Copyright ©2000 - 2009 Internet Brands, Inc.

Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC7