... Btw - how long after you shut down the (remaining) engine will the prop continue to spin? From those who know - does it look like they immediately shutdown down the engine(s) after departing the runway or does the left engine continue to run for some amount of time before the crew eventually shuts it down?
USMCFLYR
In a Jetstream (Garrets) it'd take at least 15-30 seconds for them to stop spinning, not sure about this airplane but it seems like they're shutting it down some 5 seconds before the emergency doors open up...
In a Jetstream (Garrets) it'd take at least 15-30 seconds for them to stop spinning, not sure about this airplane but it seems like they're shutting it down some 5 seconds before the emergency doors open up...
The Dornier engines take forever to spin down. it's also very squirrelly on landing so if they got the "shakes" its possible that it just gets worse and worse. the wheelbase is only 1' wider than that of a cessna 172!!
It was hard to tell and it took a long time to load so I'm not watching it again; but does the smoke from the tires begin at landing (you know....the usual puff of smoke) or is that smoke from jumping on the brakes? I ask because it seems that the animal is well off the runway before the airplane gets to that point and truthfully I would try not to make any sudden maneuvers on the runway - especially at speed.
USMCFLYR
I'm not sure if this was the case or not, and there's only a few differences (besides the obvious) between the prop and the jet.
But something that was possible was an issue with the coat rack, IE; the E/P brake. It sits on the right side of the console and is a relatively large lever.
Anyway, it can have a tendency to get bumped in flight. Full forward is off/disengaged, with no lock or detent. In the process of touching the FMS or tuning the RMU's, it can get bumped slightly back out of "OFF" so that it might have some grab on landing. Never happened to me, but it did to a friend of mine, and apparently doesn't take much out of the off position to get some very noticeable engagement on landing.
That is, if we're going with it looking like the tires were smoking more than the usual caused by spin up.
I was TRI/TRE on the 328 for several years, but I never heard of a case where the E/P brake lever was unintentionally moved back in flight while tuning the RMU or typing something into the FMS. There is a lot of load on it keeping it in the most forward position, and I don't think anyone could move it without noticing it.
I heard of a captain who wanted to show his F/O how to transfer hydraulic fluid between the two hydraulic systems by pumping the E/P brake lever in flight (this is a QRH procedure in case of a certain hydraulic problem!), and unfortunately he forgot to move it out of the "park" position after the demonstration. They landed with the brakes on, blew all four tyres and stopped right on the centreline. The wind was calm that day, so it's hard to say if the outcome would have been different with a gusty crosswind, which can be very tricky on the 328 due to the narrow wheel base.
Regarding the spin-down time of the propeller: Once the condition lever is pulled to fuel-off, the prop normally stops within 10 to 15 seconds (depending on wind). It seems as if the evacuation was initiated right after engine shutdown, and these people were very lucky not to stumble, because the propeller is very close to the main entrance door.
Quite amazing though, how quickly the other prop came off...!
I was TRI/TRE on the 328 for several years, but I never heard of a case where the E/P brake lever was unintentionally moved back in flight while tuning the RMU or typing something into the FMS. There is a lot of load on it keeping it in the most forward position, and I don't think anyone could move it without noticing it.[
As a TRI/TRE how much actual line experience did you get? Yep, when those planes are shiny and new the coat rack (E/P brake lever) will literally fly out of your hand once you pull it out of the on position if you don't have a good grip on it. My former company was the largest operator of the jet type, as well as put the most hour/cycles on them of any operator. And guess what? After they all get used up and bent, the springs that would pull that lever forward weren't quite and "springy" after a while. Hence the lever sometimes not releasing fully, or being able to be bumped in flight due to it's poor location.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NGDriver
I heard of a captain who wanted to show his F/O how to transfer hydraulic fluid between the two hydraulic systems by pumping the E/P brake lever in flight (this is a QRH procedure in case of a certain hydraulic problem!), and unfortunately he forgot to move it out of the "park" position after the demonstration. They landed with the brakes on, blew all four tyres and stopped right on the centreline. The wind was calm that day, so it's hard to say if the outcome would have been different with a gusty crosswind, which can be very tricky on the 328 due to the narrow wheel base.
Were you on the prop or jet? If I remember, the hydraulic system was one of the differences.
As a TRI/TRE how much actual line experience did you get? Yep, when those planes are shiny and new the coat rack (E/P brake lever) will literally fly out of your hand once you pull it out of the on position if you don't have a good grip on it. My former company was the largest operator of the jet type, as well as put the most hour/cycles on them of any operator. And guess what? After they all get used up and bent, the springs that would pull that lever forward weren't quite and "springy" after a while. Hence the lever sometimes not releasing fully, or being able to be bumped in flight due to it's poor location.
Were you on the prop or jet? If I remember, the hydraulic system was one of the differences.
I flew almost 5000 hours on the turboprop version, if time matters. Our highest time member of the fleet had about 35000 hours on it when I left the company, and it's still flying. Our average sector length was 45 minutes, so you could say that "shiny and new" may not be quite suitable anymore. But nothing is impossible, and you may certainly have a point there. All I'm saying is that until yesterday I haven't heard about a case of inadvertent E/P brake lever movement in flight in this type. And if that lever was not released fully before taxy, it would be very hard to get it moving, wouldn't it?
You are right about the difference between the prop and the jet. The prop had one main system and one auxiliary sytem. The two were connected through the E/P brake. By selecting a manual selector valve and pumping with a hand pump hydraulic fluid could be transferred in case of a loss of the main system.
But nothing is impossible, and you may certainly have a point there. All I'm saying is that until yesterday I haven't heard about a case of inadvertent E/P brake lever movement in flight in this type. And if that lever was not released fully before taxy, it would be very hard to get it moving, wouldn't it?
Well, after you got engine(s) started, dropped the brake, advanced the TL's and it seemed sluggish to move, not to hard to figure out, eh? If the aircraft was one of the ones with the weak return springs you'd just push on it to make sure it was all the way down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NGDriver
You are right about the difference between the prop and the jet. The prop had one main system and one auxiliary sytem. The two were connected through the E/P brake. By selecting a manual selector valve and pumping with a hand pump hydraulic fluid could be transferred in case of a loss of the main system.
The jet version had two, but it's coming up on 5 years since I flew the plane (sniff sniff) and things are starting to fade. I believe one of the systems had less consumers than the other and I think the E/P brake was on the lower consumer system. I can't remember if there was a back up accumulator for it but I thought there was. I'll have to go home and look in my Schreiner manual when I get home. But I remember there being a hydraulic interconnect valve on the overhead that was a guarded switch, but no hand pump to manually transfer fluid between the two. The hydraulic pumps for each system were electrically powered with an "auto seek" function. So if you lost power, from an engine driven gen it would just get it form the other one.
Looks like someone's Jepps slid forward on to the tiller. The tiller on the Boeing's is a better design than the European's. No offense meant to my friends across the pond, I do prefer the side stick.
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