IQuitEagle

You are aware that the tax exclusion on expats is not specific to aviation, right? It applies to all expats in every industry, and there are many, many more expat executives/engineers/managers than there are pilots. Which is to say, even corporations such as Microsoft, Apple, GE, Caterpillar, insert-ANY-major-US Corporation here, is guilty of sending employees overseas as expats who don't pay US tax. So according to you, we should punish our biggest and best companies too...

Kapitanleutnant

I'll offer a link below of a previous non pilot employee of EK who summarily dismissed for reasons that don't make sense to us in the west.

I've read a few of her posts on the other forum and…. have to say, she's relatively close to being spot on with her assessment.

I will say though, that the term "contract" is not the same thing at EK as it is to most of those in the west. In most of the expat flying gigs around the world the term used is "Terms and Conditions" (T&C).

Unfortunately, EK and the other airlines interpret these as changeable and are not "iron clad" in any way, shape or form. One can wake up in the morning and find what you thought was your "contract", has been changed unilaterally. It happens….

The real reason why Emirates Airline plans to employ 11.000 new staff | Truth about Emirates Airline Management

Kap

gloopy

Of course I'm aware of it, and in general I have no problem with it. But in the case of the EK's of the world who are ordering a bazillion jumbo widebodies with the express intent of permanently devastating US airlines (and getting us to subsidize them while they do it), and they use the tax situation as a direct pillar of their business model to do it,I have a problem with that and think we should change it.

Expat pilots wouldn't lose a dime by the way, as the predator dual subsidized airlines would have no choice but to "true up" their pay immediately or no one would go there. It would merely raise their pilot labor costs into the realm of reality.

And I'm not against expat pilots there or in general, although some in this thread are trying pretty hard to paint them all as innocent martyrs victimized by a cruel unfair system that only randomly rewards certain pilots blah blah blah. I'd have no problem hiring expat pilots in most cases, and have heard of more and more making the jump. How many are applying with active networks and updates is unknown, but the flight time is generally good and highly verifiable/credible so I doubt that a well motivated expat pilot would have that much of a harder time finding [well above basement level regionals] work in the US if they so chose to pursue it with the same effort as anyone else with competitive quals.

That's besides the point though. The EK's of the world are hostile poachers hell bent on putting many thousands of US airline pilots (not to mention other workers) out of our existing jobs. I hope they fail miserably, and I hope we help them in that direction.

airspeed1974

Gloopy, my airline is getting one new 737 and one new a320 every month for the next 2 years. We need lots of captains. We also have wife bodies coming here to China. So does this mean because our parent company flies to America that we too should also fail?

Sorry many of us don't agree with you. As for your blah blah blah let me tell you it's much easier for you to issue these statements from where your at.

The truth is atleast IMHO most of us expats would make equal to or better employees then our brethren back home. Why? Because the level of BS we have to put up with. The insane medicals, stress of dealing with extremely low time copilots, sim checks that would make ones head spin, horrible ATC, traffic delays the likes of which you prob have never seen. We know how to improvise, adapt and overcome.

I liken being overseas as not much diff then being deployed with a carrier battle group for 6 months. The same isolation and stress without the fun jets.

I'm not saying we are better or worse but atleast equal or better when it comes to dealing with BS. So when you say about blah blah blah when it pertains to us being matyrs well I'll tell you many of us have tried to come home with a hell of a lot of heavy jet turbine PIC, degree, etc. Crickets.....

I was just reading how the mayor of London was taxed on capital gains for him selling his place in the UK. He hasn't lived in America and was simply born there and yet the IRS many years later taxes him on his UK property. I don't know any other govt in the world as greedy as Uncle Sam

gloopy

Well the mayor of London should renounce if he doesn't want to pay US taxes. So no sympathy for him on that. Unless he's just keeping his option to leave what he Shirley must robotically proclaim is "the greatest city in the world" in "the greatest country in the world" every 5 seconds to pander to his voters. So why on earth would he want to remain a US citizen? Who cares though. As long as he is, he is subject to US taxes to the degree IAW the law. Even Tina Turner renounced over taxes. So no sympathy for the mayor of London.

I agree that many expat (and corporate) pilots would make excellent additions to major airlines in the US. However the "big 3" (or whatever) could hire every single expat pilot on earth tomorrow and they would just re-fill those positions with others and then they would say how its not fair, blah blah blah.

In any case, I know a few ME and one Asian expat pilot that got hired at US majors fairly recently. All 4 networked agressively and had competitive quals. Hiring should only increase along with retirements which start to peak at most airlines in the coming few years.

I realize what expat (and corporate…as its a comparative situation WRT hiring) go through and agree that, all things being equal, some of the common experiences they go through can definately be viewed as assets.

Dune

Quoted website now blocked in the UAE by both government internet providers (yes folks; there are only 2 and both are government agencies) over the past 24 hours through their proxy servers.

If a government (UAE) and their most "successful" international airline (Emirates) feel sufficiently threatened by a single female ticket agent making $2000 USD/month who they cheated out of a miniscule end of service benefit to the point where they block her website, you all have to think VERY long and hard about who you are jumping into bed with and how they will treat you as a "valued aviation professional".

This is the $hit I would expect of North Korea. Welcome to version 2. There is no end to the extent they will take to control and manipulate information to not allow the truth to emerge. Truly staggering and even beyond what I thought they might be capable of after watching this circus unravel over the past few years.

Again I have no skin in this game as I am on my last few months in this decrepit organization but I cannot stress strongly enough how I do not want some of you young guys to fall for the glitz/glamor of the Emirates "sirens song" and destroy your careers by contemplating a move to this place. I gain nothing by doing so but even if one of you looks beyond the veneer and does not make the move I look forward to a very big "Thank You!" directed at me at some point in the future.

Stand by for the next episode which is coming in the next few months (when a new rostering system is coming into place at a "convenient time" when the government has recently changed their maximum rostered yearly flight/duty hours). Surely a coincidence? It must be. Sell....Bridge..... Stupid?

Dune

Once again; WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE.

As viewed by the majority who do not know how to use a VPN (primarily cabin crew who cannot afford the $69/year to get a solid VPN).

If this does not reek of desperation on the level of Kim Jong-un and his wise vision (kind of like those with the wise vision in the UAE), I don't know what does.

[IMG][/IMG]

captjns

I believe all are aware the control the ruling people have over the the largest duty free area in the world.

The issue is that some pius individuals feel that expats should be black balled from US carriers.

Laker24

You won't be black listed from the US carriers. At EK we currently have tons of FO's and CA's leaving for DAL, UAL, AA, Virgin America and Jet Blue. I even heard of one EK FO who left to go fly E170's at a regional. That should speak volumes about the quality of life at EK.

If you do come to EK do it with the mindset that you will not see the left seat. For you to upgrade the fleet would basically have to double. There is some attrition but it's not enough to get you in the left seat in a reasonable amount of time. Despite the fact that we currently have hundreds, probably thousands of FO's who meet the upgrade requirements Emirates just started advertising for DEC's again. Why? Because they can. It's cheaper to hire a direct entry CA than to train an FO then find, hire, and train his/her replacement. Read this paragraph multiple times before accepting a job offer. I'm guessing someone hired today would upgrade in about 10 years+.

If you do come despite the above paragraph make sure you don't accept a position on the 330. You will be an FO until they park the fleet and then you will start over again on the 380. It takes 3,000 hours in type to qualify for command. So if you spend 2-3 years on the 330 you are looking at another 4-5 years before you even meet the minimums to upgrade on the 380. But you will have hundreds ahead of you for upgrade. All the local cadets will be nearing upgrade by that time and they will go ahead of you as well.

Flying a 777/380 is nice but you won't be getting the 18-20 days off per month that a DAL/UAL/AA widebody CA gets. Instead you will have a mix of ultra short haul and ultra long haul, mostly on the backside of the clock, and about 8-13 days off per month on the Boeing. A typical 777 turn around flight leaves between 12am-3am and returns to Dubai from 7am-1300. Two pilots and 8+ hours of flight time over multiple legs. Time spent in the bunk does not count towards monthly or yearly maximums. You get your $12usd per hour of flight pay while in the bunk but that's it. Doing that month in and month out takes a toll.

Someting else that will come as a surprise to NA pilots is the general anti american sentiment in the EK training department. You will be constantly proving yourself to the Aussie/British trainers who think you are non standard and a sh#t pilot. If you study hard you should be fine but it does wear you out over time. Heaven forbid you come off an RJ. My first three years every CA asked me if I flew an RJ prior to EK and when I said I came off a Boeing they then went on to talk about how many problems EK had with all those American RJ pilots they were forced to hire. That really shows how the training department feels about NA pilots in general. For some reason they think an ex BA guy who spent two years sleeping in the bunk is infinitely more qualified than someone who spent years flying multiple legs a day in the left seat of an RJ in all kinds of weather. It makes no sense to me but it's the reality of Emirates. During my training the only ex RJ pilot in our class was mercilessly hammered for little mistakes while the rest of us went through relatively unscathed.

I'm sure this all sounds like sour grapes and EK is not all bad. You will fly nice equipment to cool places. But you will work as hard as a Mesa pilot and you won't save nearly as much money as you expected. There are no labor laws and your contract will be changed/broken with no recourse. We used to have 78 hour lines with overtime paid above 78. Now we fly between 91.5-92 hours per month for the same compensation. You are guaranteed 42 days of vacation per year but the company will only award 30 of them and the rest will be in an ever increasing leave bank that you can't use. No matter how productive you are you cannot be awarded more than 5 days off in a row. Staff travel is becoming more and more difficult so it's going to be very hard to get back home. The hard truth is that the best days of EK are in the rear view mirror. They put on a spectacular road show though and I see how someone could fall in love with the place after an hour or two with the recruitment team.

If you must come to the ME then choose EY. Upgrade, training, the pilot culture and virtually every other metric is vastly superior at the moment. Or if you choose EK then plan on applying to DAL the moment you get some time and be prepared to pay off your EK bond once you get the call to come back home.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Best of luck to everyone.

Laker24

EK is great at finding pilots who need a job. All you have to do is go down the seniority list and you will find an accurate cross section of the failed airlines of the world and their corresponding start date at Emirates. Lots of ex Ansett, Varig, Aero Mexico, US furloughs, ex contract pilots from China, and so forth.

Morale is currently in the gutter. There are a few "happy pilots" here but most of those guys are ones who bought a big villa ten years ago and are now sitting on about $2million USD in equity. Or those from places like South Africa or South America who have few options if any. If you are from a country with few prospects or any third world area then EK and Dubai offers a route to relative prosperity.

For someone from a country like the US you will be shocked by the lack of basic freedoms, work rules, training environment, excessive bureaucracy, etc, etc. If you can put up with the bs you might be happy. There are an endless supply of young flight attendants to date. But the negatives are beginning to tip the scales in a big way and when it comes down to it Dubai is just a boring place. Check out trip advisor's list of most overrated destinations in the world. Just do your research and triple check all opinions, including mine!


Direct Entry Captains are back. For the moment only on the 330 fleet. I'm sure the 777 is right around the corner. So add another year or two to the projected upgrade time.
https://tas-ekgcareers.taleo.net/car...l?job=1500006V