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I've seen some of the other threads asking about competitive times. I am over their minimum total times, but a little shy of their instrument in aircraft times the way I've been computing it. Are they pretty firm on that minimum or will they look past it if you are over their other minimums. Speaking with someone else I trust as reputable, they say my problem is because I have only been recording instrument times for time I have actually been flying in the left seat and not while I've been acting as SIC. 61.51 is not pretty clear and I've done some searching and there are plenty of varying opinions on this. Some say because the aircraft requires a SIC they are still "operating the aircraft" while others dispute that. Any NetJet people out there know NetJets view on this?
I've seen some of the other threads asking about competitive times. I am over their minimum total times, but a little shy of their instrument in aircraft times the way I've been computing it. Are they pretty firm on that minimum or will they look past it if you are over their other minimums. Speaking with someone else I trust as reputable, they say my problem is because I have only been recording instrument times for time I have actually been flying in the left seat and not while I've been acting as SIC. 61.51 is not pretty clear and I've done some searching and there are plenty of varying opinions on this. Some say because the aircraft requires a SIC they are still "operating the aircraft" while others dispute that. Any NetJet people out there know NetJets view on this?
The minimums are hard. Period.
The way you are logging your instrument time is the way it's wanted. Your leg, your actual. Do not included actual instrument time flown by the PIC.
Your leg, your actual. Do not included actual instrument time flown by the PIC.
My opinion, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but........ If I'm a required crew member, wether I'm in the left or right seat, FP or NFP, I'm allowed to log everything- night, instrument, inst-approaches, X-country, everything, except PIC (if I'm NOT the one in command). If you are the NFP, you're still part of the flight-crew, monitoring the FP, making your calls, double-checking the approach-plates, not to mention your ass is just as much on the line if you bust an altitude or MDA. You have every right to that instrument time. I'm not an FAR expert, just what I think.
Heckler, does your company keep track of all inflight conditions (instrument, day, night, etc)?. If they do, you might want to retrive that, and log it, especially if it gets you over the hump.
My opinion, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but........ If I'm a required crew member, whether I'm in the left or right seat, FP or NFP, I'm allowed to log everything- night, instrument, inst-approaches, X-country, everything, except PIC (if I'm NOT the one in command). If you are the NFP, you're still part of the flight-crew, monitoring the FP, making your calls, double-checking the approach-plates, not to mention your ass is just as much on the line if you bust an altitude or MDA. You have every right to that instrument time. I'm not an FAR expert, just what I think.
This sounds like "pilot factory" logic, akin to logging CFI time from the back seat. Required crewmember has nothing to do with who logs what. The whole purpose of a logbook is to show your proficiency, not the proficiency of a crew as a whole.
I can tell you as a fact, when NJA prints out your flight time report, all times are credited to the flying pilot. End of story. If the SIC flies the night IMC leg, the SIC gets ALL the time. The only thing in the Captain's line is "PIC" as the final authority. If it is the Captain's leg he gets ALL the time. Landings, IMC, and approaches are pilot specific. They are not "shared" items.
If NJA records its own pilots times this way, I feel very confident that it is the way they want applicants to present it.
I can tell you as a fact, when NJA prints out your flight time report, all times are credited to the flying pilot. End of story. If the SIC flies the night IMC leg, the SIC gets ALL the time. The only thing in the Captain's line is "PIC" as the final authority. If it is the Captain's leg he gets ALL the time. Landings, IMC, and approaches are pilot specific. They are not "shared" items.
Landings, IMC and approaches ok, but I'm pretty sure that Netjets does credit night to both crewmembers.
Why are we even talking about "landings ", whoever lands, logs it, simple, who cares about landings. The topic here is "logging instrument time as the NFP", this is the subject, this is what Heckler inquired about. My opinion " both pilots are allowed to log it, regardless of performing FP or NFP duties", if you've read different on the FAR/AIM, then tell me about it, and I'll glady admit I'm wrong, the one thing I lack is a big ego.
You can make agruments tell you're blue in the face about how to interpret the FAR's and such. It might not help you get a job. I once had someone mention to me that they would be quick to tell an interviewer that they were missinterpreting the regs. I kinda laughed at that. You might be right but you'll not get the job. What's the point of that?
If I was a CP and some guy came to me logging actual while he wasn't even the flying pilot, I'd laugh him out of the room. I could care less what the regs say, it simply doesn't make any sense if you look at it from a practical standpoint.
Are we old skool or what NJA? What is becoming of this biz?
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61.51 (g) Logging instrument flight time. (1) A person may log instrument time only for that flight time when the person operates the aircraft solely by reference to instruments under actual or simulated instrument flight conditions.
This should clear that up. If you are not operating solely by reference, which the NFP is not, then you shouldn't be logging instrument time. My opinion.
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