The possession of a CFI certificate simply authorizes you to perform flight instruction, it isn't approval to bypass local business regulations.
Do your homework and you'll discover "freelancers" are easy targets for lawsuits claiming compliance failure. Either do your instruction with integrity following the local rules or don't do it. Personally, I'd question whether I really wanted to be involved with any instructor who followed the "don't ask, don't tell" philosophy ...
Oh, and don't forget to make sure you verify and document that person's US citizenship in accordance with TSA regulations! The Designated Examiner will probably want to see that!
[Posted by the holder of a mandatory $1 mil aviation liability policy with the city airport as a named insured ... ]
Teaching is a commercial operation. The FAA just allows it under FAR part 91.
The FAA allows it under Part 91 because they DON'T view it as a commercial operation. That is why CFIs only need a 3rd class medical. The FAA allows CFIs to be compensated under part 61 for their teaching, not for their flying.
A private pilot can share their operating expenses with their passengers.
Shinyjet - If is costs $100 to operate your airplane, charge your friend $99/hr, and have him pick up dinner or a couple beers afterward. 100% legal.
As far as what the airport/city is trying to do, if push comes to shove I'm not sure all their little rules are legal. You are using your FAA certificate at an airport that takes federal dollars. This reminds me when Santa Monica city council tried to ban large airplanes. The ordinance passed....but the FAA spanked them and said "no you won't!" Imagine if every city had their own regulations regarding their airports and airspace. They simply don't have the jurisdiction for this, and rightfully so! That's the FAA's job...unless FMY wants to give up those federal grants.
The FAA allows it under Part 91 because they DON'T view it as a commercial operation. That is why CFIs only need a 3rd class medical. The FAA allows CFIs to be compensated under part 61 for their teaching, not for their flying.
That is absolutely not true. If you're flying for compensation or hire, it is commercial operation, period. There are plenty of commercial operations that only have to adhere to pt 91. Also, a commercial pilot certificate is necessary to have a CFI.
This operation doesn't seem like it would need a business license. I know it wouldn't where I live. So it he's not running a business, does he really need to comply with the airports requirements? Why should he not be allowed to teach a friend how to fly? I once worked at a flight school that was so proud of their insurance policy we were supposed to sell customers on that. Give me a break. Also, I'm guessing that his friend/student isn't going to go get his pilot's license if he has to do it (and pay for it) at an FBO.
My dumb advice; do it all in cash.
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Freight doesn't say, "I'm scared, p*ssed and calling the FAA ..."
Last edited by AKfreighter : 10-08-2009 at 01:52 PM.
Reason: clarity
A private pilot can share their operating expenses with their passengers.
Shinyjet - If is costs $100 to operate your airplane, charge your friend $99/hr, and have him pick up dinner or a couple beers afterward. 100% legal.
Whoa, whoa... Wayy illegal (for a private pilot).
The FAA says that the pilot may NOT pay LESS than his equal share (Pro rata or something). If it costs 100 to operate the plane, and there are 2 people on board, a private pilot may not pay less than $50.
The FAA allows it under Part 91 because they DON'T view it as a commercial operation. That is why CFIs only need a 3rd class medical. The FAA allows CFIs to be compensated under part 61 for their teaching, not for their flying.
Wrong, the FAA does view it as a commercial operation and there are TONS of enforcement actions, backed up by the NTSB, to confirm it as a commercial operation. Additionally, if it were NOT a commercial operation 100 hour inspections would not be required...
Quote:
Originally Posted by J Dawg
A private pilot can share their operating expenses with their passengers.
Shinyjet - If is costs $100 to operate your airplane, charge your friend $99/hr, and have him pick up dinner or a couple beers afterward. 100% legal.
Wrong, not legal.... and again there are tons of enforcement actions to prove it. They can pay no more than their prorated share of the actual costs... and at least one enforcement action showed that mortgage and tie-down costs amortized by hours of operation could not be included. You can slip gas, oil, and mx.... that's about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by J Dawg
As far as what the airport/city is trying to do, if push comes to shove I'm not sure all their little rules are legal. You are using your FAA certificate at an airport that takes federal dollars. This reminds me when Santa Monica city council tried to ban large airplanes. The ordinance passed....but the FAA spanked them and said "no you won't!" Imagine if every city had their own regulations regarding their airports and airspace. They simply don't have the jurisdiction for this, and rightfully so! That's the FAA's job...unless FMY wants to give up those federal grants.
You would have a point there, if it were not for the FAA's own Advisory Circulars that basically instruct airport authorities to do exactly as was done here.
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Fly The Contract & Nothing More
This operation doesn't seem like it would need a business license. I know it wouldn't where I live. So it he's not running a business, does he really need to comply with the airports requirements? Why should he not be allowed to teach a friend how to fly? I once worked at a flight school that was so proud of their insurance policy we were supposed to sell customers on that. Give me a break. Also, I'm guessing that his friend/student isn't going to go get his pilot's license if he has to do it (and pay for it) at an FBO.
My dumb advice; do it all in cash.
Well, if he wants to do it for free, he can do as he wishes... if he is accepting money for plane rental, and for his instruction time, then he is conducting a commerical operation.... so yes, he could be required to comply with the airport policies.
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Fly The Contract & Nothing More
Well, if he wants to do it for free, he can do as he wishes... if he is accepting money for plane rental, and for his instruction time, then he is conducting a commerical operation.... so yes, he could be required to comply with the airport policies.
Really? I'm speculating the whole way here. I don't know the answers. But its seems to me we are mixing up what's a commercial operation as defined by the FAA (not to hard to define), and what's a business or operation in regards to the city of aiport manager. I don't think they are the same, but maybe the airport mgr. defines any operation requiring a commercial certificate as needing blah, blah, and blah. I don't know.
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Freight doesn't say, "I'm scared, p*ssed and calling the FAA ..."
Really? I'm speculating the whole way here. I don't know the answers. But its seems to me we are mixing up what's a commercial operation as defined by the FAA (not to hard to define), and what's a business or operation in regards to the city of aiport manager. I don't think they are the same, but maybe the airport mgr. defines any operation requiring a commercial certificate as needing blah, blah, and blah. I don't know.
It's spelled out fairly clearly in the airport policy he attached to one of his postings what the airport authority considers a commercial operation... and if you take the time to read it, they cover everything from flight instruction, to photo flights, to charter companies.... basically if you are getting paid in any way, that airport authority is going to regulate it. Additionally, what he is proposing to do does fall into a commerical operation as far as the FAA and NTSB are concerned.
Lastly, it isn't that out of the ordinary. Most GA airports with full time management will have similar regulations, some are more restrictive than others, but most will have similar rules. The typical CFI isn't exposed to those rules since they work for somebody else, or they freelance teaching in other people's planes... it's when you start providing the airplane and the instruction that you trip into the regulations for running a commerical operation.
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Fly The Contract & Nothing More
Interesing stuff. I'm aware of the FARs and what constitutes a commercial op. I just never thought of an airport authority regulating this kind of minutia (ie a guy teaching his friend to fly and getting paid for it). I didn't read the attachments to his posts, so I'm not fully informed on this matter. (How could you tell?) However, this makes me wonder about the airfields around me. Guess this another example of why I'm just a pilot.
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Freight doesn't say, "I'm scared, p*ssed and calling the FAA ..."
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