Shinyjet,
I've been an AOPA member for 14 years now but they really ticked me off a year ago in an unrelated matter (If you had an AOPA credit card from Bank of America your rate went from 5% to 11% with no decrease in income or credit drop. They just decided to raise it. I let AOPA know--since they get a kickback--and they could care less. I cancelled the card.)
When I had a school in MI they were very strict about independent instructors. The state would even come out and inspect your "facilities". Here in the Republic of Texas there's hardly any rules barring the practice. I considered doing the same thing (independent) in my 152 however; the insurance quote I got for open training and rental was close to $5000 a year...all this under the "we're now offering better rates for instructors who own aircraft to stimulate interest in flying and student starts." For my wife and I to fly it our insurance quote was $600 a year.
Good luck and I hope it works out.
I recently acquired a -150 and I got the same reaction, a line full of people interested in getting instructed by yours truly, just to get turned away cause I can't play under 5000/yr insurance and liabilities. It's just not worth it, so I keep flying the wife around cramped in my little aluminum craft of "personal use" self-therapy.
I do see the hourly rates tennis instructors charge here and I'm floored why aircraft instruction isn't on par. That's the second reason I've turned away from instructing more actively, it's just not worth my time money wise.
Advisory Circulars are not regulatory. They contain recommended practices, but unless these can be referenced to a regulation, they do not have the force of law.
To make this part 61 legal, temporarly sell your airplane to your friend with the understanding that you will buy it back at the end of the training. I don't know the loopholes of this, but you could simply make him a part owner of your plane for the time it takes to complete the training. The cost of the instruction can be factored into the cost of the airplane.
I have thought about trying to incorporate my plane and selling shares to prospective students. Once they were done with training you simply buy the shares back. Does anyone think that approach would work?
How about instructing for free but requiring that the students buy a pencil an hour from you at $40 each?
Skyhigh
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[quote=hindsight2020;693050]I recently acquired a -150 and I got the same reaction, a line full of people interested in getting instructed by yours truly, just to get turned away cause I can't play under 5000/yr insurance and liabilities. It's just not worth it, so I keep flying the wife around cramped in my little aluminum craft of "personal use" self-therapy.
We just made a revision to an insurance policy on an Arrow that I do some instruction in, and that is owned by the charter company I fly for. The insurance requires high minimums for solo flight (750 tt, 250 complex, 25 in type) and only allows one instructor (me), but the annual rate only increased about $500 per year. You can do the same thing in your aircraft, and for a nominal fee, can have lower time individuals listed on your policy, or require them to have renters insurance with you as a named insured.
I recently acquired a -150 and I got the same reaction, a line full of people interested in getting instructed by yours truly, just to get turned away cause I can't play under 5000/yr insurance and liabilities. It's just not worth it, so I keep flying the wife around cramped in my little aluminum craft of "personal use" self-therapy.
I do see the hourly rates tennis instructors charge here and I'm floored why aircraft instruction isn't on par. That's the second reason I've turned away from instructing more actively, it's just not worth my time money wise.
What do you think the local FBO/Flight school pays for insurance? They are in the same boat, high rates to instruct and you feel you should be able to come in a instruct in your own plane and not have the overhead the school has? Sorry I'm with the Flight school and AOPA on this one. If your instructing your friend for free different story, but when you start charging you should play by the same rules as the flight school. Just my thoughts. Proud AOPA member since 1988
I have thought about trying to incorporate my plane and selling shares to prospective students. Once they were done with training you simply buy the shares back. Does anyone think that approach would work?
How about instructing for free but requiring that the students buy a pencil an hour from you at $40 each?
Skyhigh
It's a flying club. The insurance costs would still be kinda up there (3-4k/yr) But you would make this part of the members' dues. Then you could make yourself the authorized instructor for the club.
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I believe I understand the point bigshiny jet is trying to make. It's his plane, he is a CFI, it is a public use aircraft; so what should hold him back from being able to instruct his friend. I also understand the principle about he should not have to worry about all this regulations and red tape just to do this. However, I am still not understand the authority they have to do this. All competition arguements, why this should not be allowed based on taking business, etc.. aside. Are these the rules at all airports or just certain ones?
I know an aquantaince who instructs people out of his own plane and this never occured to me. I figured sure his insurance would be higher, he would have to do 100 hrs, possible some business licenses etc., but other than that I figured he would have no problem.
I'd like to get back to the "AOPA does not support pilots" subject. I recently renewed my instructor ticket after long debate. I have been tired for years now of recieving expensive mailings each month telling me, nearly demanding, that I purchase legal coverage and insurance that I can not afford. Why can I not afford it? BECAUSE I'M A FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR!!! Almost every other page you turn over in Flight Training, AOPA, etc., has an add to this effect. These adds are buried among articles that tell flight instructors how important to the industry they are. If you've ever been to a renewal clinic put on by AOPA they always open it up with a "you are so important to this industry speech". So then, where is the support? The only support I have ever seen from AOPA, EAA, and NAFI, has been in the form of them telling me it is time to renew my membership. Well guess what I can't afford to. If I'm so important to you shouldn't part of my membership as a CFI be insurance and legal coverage from you? It is getting harder and harder to support an industry that does not support me other than in words or useless mailings. For the longest time there has been an Airlins Pilot's Union. Those pilots learned from flight instructors somewhere. So why not a National Flight Instructor's Union? Oh that's right because we'd have to pay dues that we already can't afford.
I'd like to get back to the "AOPA does not support pilots" subject. I recently renewed my instructor ticket after long debate. I have been tired for years now of recieving expensive mailings each month telling me, nearly demanding, that I purchase legal coverage and insurance that I can not afford. Why can I not afford it? BECAUSE I'M A FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR!!! Almost every other page you turn over in Flight Training, AOPA, etc., has an add to this effect. These adds are buried among articles that tell flight instructors how important to the industry they are. If you've ever been to a renewal clinic put on by AOPA they always open it up with a "you are so important to this industry speech". So then, where is the support? The only support I have ever seen from AOPA, EAA, and NAFI, has been in the form of them telling me it is time to renew my membership. Well guess what I can't afford to. If I'm so important to you shouldn't part of my membership as a CFI be insurance and legal coverage from you? It is getting harder and harder to support an industry that does not support me other than in words or useless mailings. For the longest time there has been an Airlins Pilot's Union. Those pilots learned from flight instructors somewhere. So why not a National Flight Instructor's Union? Oh that's right because we'd have to pay dues that we already can't afford.
What exactly do you expect for $40 a year? A personal counselor to call you every week to see if there is anything they can do to make your career better? That fact that they are aggressively lobbying against user fees may be the best thing they can do for you. You really want them to pay your legal and insurance coverage?
You need some thicker skin if you feel threatend by the Legal and Insurance offers. And while you are reading the magazine that comes free with your membership, let me tell you that EVERY pilot can afford the legal services plan. It works out to $5 a month for CFIs. It really doesn't take much to get the FSDO or NTSB calling and there is no better feeling than knowing that there is someone there to represent you and let you know what your rights are. I'm sure I'll have no shortage of people agreeing with me here.
The FAA allows it under Part 91 because they DON'T view it as a commercial operation. That is why CFIs only need a 3rd class medical. The FAA allows CFIs to be compensated under part 61 for their teaching, not for their flying.
Very true! When flight instructing you are not performing a commercial action. Now if leasing your aircraft then you're a business however flight instruction, aircraft aside, is not a commercial operation. As a flight instructor you are not considered "for compensation or hire". You can log the time, cash the check, and do so with no worries since when acting as a CFI you are not acting for compensation or hire.
I'm really shocked about AOPA though. I haven't used them a whole lot but they have been great to me. Wouldn't another option the original poster be that he could require the individuals to have their own insurance then protect himself with CFI insurance?
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