"The Event" Has Occured at Avantair
#1
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2009
Posts: 158
"The Event" Has Occured at Avantair
Last month I told you to expect "The Event". Well, the union cards have arrived. Pilots are already recieving them and management has already told the pilots to consider the ramifications if they unionize. Well....the ramifications of NOT unionizing have been being forced onto an 8/6 schedule, getting fired for using your sick days.....well, you already know the price of not having a respectable contract. Good luck guys. Don't blow your one and only opportunity to get your 7/7 schedule back.
#2
Last month I told you to expect "The Event". Well, the union cards have arrived. Pilots are already recieving them and management has already told the pilots to consider the ramifications if they unionize. Well....the ramifications of NOT unionizing have been being forced onto an 8/6 schedule, getting fired for using your sick days.....well, you already know the price of not having a respectable contract. Good luck guys. Don't blow your one and only opportunity to get your 7/7 schedule back.
Getting the 7/7 schedule is nothing compared to all the other opportunities they'll get. These are just a few I see.
- They no longer have to fly broken airplanes or be threatened into it.
- They can flight plan performance, weight and balance legally, without being coerced by chief pilots.
- They no longer have to be pushed over duty time.
- Can call fatique without recourse when worked 14hrs a day, for multiple days in a row. Ect..Ect..
I also agree with BTDI, They blow this, and it's never going to improve.
GOOD LUCK!
#5
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2009
Posts: 158
Deb, I hate to see that you deleted your post. I can understand that you are worried about your husband at Avantair in the past few months. Long, hard days, flying till exhausted, pressure to fly broken planes....things you talked about...... I understand your feelings that you posted.
I was just told that the company has lost 26 pilots for various reasons during the recession. According to people who work there who are citing moving up on the seniority list, I can see that to be true. That is over 10% of the pilots!
I heard that one of the posters here with previous 121 experience was the mastermind behind the union drive. Good to see someone stand up for themselves.
I was just told that the company has lost 26 pilots for various reasons during the recession. According to people who work there who are citing moving up on the seniority list, I can see that to be true. That is over 10% of the pilots!
I heard that one of the posters here with previous 121 experience was the mastermind behind the union drive. Good to see someone stand up for themselves.
#8
New Hire
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 3
Yes, I did delete my post....
I was venting regarding the new schedule, and my Husband asked me to delete it after we talked. But why are you putting words in my mouth? I never said that he was "under pressure to fly broken airplanes". I said that he is down with a broken airplane.... Big difference. As you know, when you live near a maintenance base, you babysit broken airplanes all the time. And yes, I worry when a plane came out of maintenance at any company he worked at. I worry, that's what I'm supposed to do. Our friends that fly at American and Netjets are the same.... "Yeah, here in Tulsa (AA) or Columbus (Netjet) with a broken plane. So yes, his planes brake too, but I never said that he was forced to fly them.
I'm not an idiot. If Avantair were that awful kind of place to work, then why would I jeopardize my Husband's job by making a post that admitted he did wrong or they did wrong? I most certainly wouldn't jeopardize the job he loves.. And you as a fellow pilot should know that changing those words could get him in trouble for saying something that wasn't true. Why would you do that?
Yes, he is working hard and yes he has some very long (but legal) days, but he has never hesitated to call in tired when he had to at any company, incl. Avantair. And yes, we are frustrated with the new schedule..
But that's not the whole story:
Twice when we had a sickness in the family, Avantair went out of its way to be kind to us. They gave him more time than he asked for to take care of us. Later, they rented a car for him to get home to see my Dad in Hospice. His Chief Pilot and Director of OPS made these calls, and we were grateful. At Christmas, we received a surprise gift from Avantair because they knew what a terrible year. My husband thought that it was manuals, but turned out to be age appropriate toys for our children. This is a very different company than the one you describe.
You seem to want to key on to the negative posts about Avantair (incl. parts of mine), but why all the hate? Certainly you knew and still know people that work there.. Do you want them to fail? Everyone there thought you were disgruntled because of the delayed upgrade time, but you say that you a legitimate grievance against them. I won't try to tell you what to do, but did you try telling the top people that you didn't get your final paycheck? If not, why not try even however long it was ago... If they don't give you the answer you want, then well.. You can continue hating them.
Why not reach out to your friends there and support them? Continuously posting bad stuff about Avantair might make you feel better, but you are really hurting your friends and fellow pilots. Is that what you want? I don't think so, or at least hope not. You could even take delight in the failure of the individuals who you feel slighted you, but why go after the entire company?
So, thank you if you are truly concerned, but please don't place words in my mouth. We picked this company as a family and are glad that we did. He had a chance to go to bigger companies, flying bigger planes, but picked here. He loves his job and wants to make this his last aviation job. Yes, mainly for the seven and seven schedule. Yes, I vented and Yes I am disappointed with him being way more, very disappointed because it is so hard to plan our lives. But not enough to give up...
Please, if you have any friends left there at all, or even just as fellow pilots, can you just be mad at the few that hurt you and not the entire company?
Thank you
I was venting regarding the new schedule, and my Husband asked me to delete it after we talked. But why are you putting words in my mouth? I never said that he was "under pressure to fly broken airplanes". I said that he is down with a broken airplane.... Big difference. As you know, when you live near a maintenance base, you babysit broken airplanes all the time. And yes, I worry when a plane came out of maintenance at any company he worked at. I worry, that's what I'm supposed to do. Our friends that fly at American and Netjets are the same.... "Yeah, here in Tulsa (AA) or Columbus (Netjet) with a broken plane. So yes, his planes brake too, but I never said that he was forced to fly them.
I'm not an idiot. If Avantair were that awful kind of place to work, then why would I jeopardize my Husband's job by making a post that admitted he did wrong or they did wrong? I most certainly wouldn't jeopardize the job he loves.. And you as a fellow pilot should know that changing those words could get him in trouble for saying something that wasn't true. Why would you do that?
Yes, he is working hard and yes he has some very long (but legal) days, but he has never hesitated to call in tired when he had to at any company, incl. Avantair. And yes, we are frustrated with the new schedule..
But that's not the whole story:
Twice when we had a sickness in the family, Avantair went out of its way to be kind to us. They gave him more time than he asked for to take care of us. Later, they rented a car for him to get home to see my Dad in Hospice. His Chief Pilot and Director of OPS made these calls, and we were grateful. At Christmas, we received a surprise gift from Avantair because they knew what a terrible year. My husband thought that it was manuals, but turned out to be age appropriate toys for our children. This is a very different company than the one you describe.
You seem to want to key on to the negative posts about Avantair (incl. parts of mine), but why all the hate? Certainly you knew and still know people that work there.. Do you want them to fail? Everyone there thought you were disgruntled because of the delayed upgrade time, but you say that you a legitimate grievance against them. I won't try to tell you what to do, but did you try telling the top people that you didn't get your final paycheck? If not, why not try even however long it was ago... If they don't give you the answer you want, then well.. You can continue hating them.
Why not reach out to your friends there and support them? Continuously posting bad stuff about Avantair might make you feel better, but you are really hurting your friends and fellow pilots. Is that what you want? I don't think so, or at least hope not. You could even take delight in the failure of the individuals who you feel slighted you, but why go after the entire company?
So, thank you if you are truly concerned, but please don't place words in my mouth. We picked this company as a family and are glad that we did. He had a chance to go to bigger companies, flying bigger planes, but picked here. He loves his job and wants to make this his last aviation job. Yes, mainly for the seven and seven schedule. Yes, I vented and Yes I am disappointed with him being way more, very disappointed because it is so hard to plan our lives. But not enough to give up...
Please, if you have any friends left there at all, or even just as fellow pilots, can you just be mad at the few that hurt you and not the entire company?
Thank you
#9
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2009
Posts: 158
I was mixing your thoughts with the thoughts of other posters. I can see how it looked like all your words. My bad.
If your husband loves his job so much, then I hope he votes "no" on the union. Yesterday you were encouraging a union, and today you are saying he is thrilled with his current situation. Very confusing....as if hubby feels your post might have had a negative impact on his job and he asked you to delete it. I hate to bust your bubble but Avantair management already read your first post. Hopefully your new, "change of heart" post will calm things down for him.
PS: You seem like a very articulate and caring person. You probably know that the ONLY way you and your kids will have a 7-7 schedule again is through a union contract. Do you still support unionization at Avantair?
If your husband loves his job so much, then I hope he votes "no" on the union. Yesterday you were encouraging a union, and today you are saying he is thrilled with his current situation. Very confusing....as if hubby feels your post might have had a negative impact on his job and he asked you to delete it. I hate to bust your bubble but Avantair management already read your first post. Hopefully your new, "change of heart" post will calm things down for him.
PS: You seem like a very articulate and caring person. You probably know that the ONLY way you and your kids will have a 7-7 schedule again is through a union contract. Do you still support unionization at Avantair?
Last edited by BeenThereDoneIt; 12-11-2010 at 12:12 AM.
#10
Flexjet and Citation Shares have 7-7 schedules, they also have good salaries and great QOL, all of that without the support of a union... But their managements needed to keep up with the Netjets' contract inorder to keep their employees from organizing, they also needed to show their owners their employees were well compensated, plus I'm sure they didn't want to loose any talent to the competition either. So they matched (or pretty close) the NJA contract.
Avantair is a whole different animal, they don't fly equipment similar to the larger fracs, they're in the red, plus the economic environment of today has changed....its gonna be hard to imrpove things there without a union.
But you don't want to cripple the company either, I'm sure Avantair is in no position to dish out pork
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Bill Lumberg
Fractional
2
07-02-2008 06:08 AM