Fractional v. Airlines?
#21
BTW, I know of 6 pilots who resigned, turning down furlough recall, from majors. Their pay, schedule, company benefits exceeded what they were going to get back on the bottom of list commuting. Sometimes the next five years looms much larger than you think. These guys were chief pilots of big iron with MD88/737 CA pay.
So, it happens.
GF
So, it happens.
GF
#22
It is worth remembering that in the corporate (91) world bigger isn't always better. Bigger airplane = bigger suitcase. Being a light jet captain with a set schedule was about the best QOL I've had in my career.
#23
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Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 473
BTW, I know of 6 pilots who resigned, turning down furlough recall, from majors. Their pay, schedule, company benefits exceeded what they were going to get back on the bottom of list commuting. Sometimes the next five years looms much larger than you think. These guys were chief pilots of big iron with MD88/737 CA pay.
So, it happens.
GF
So, it happens.
GF
The interesting question, which only them can answer honestly, is if they would have left the majors knowing what corporate world would offer, out of their own initiative, not being furloughed.
You lost me when you said that your contacts were furloughed, meaning on the bottom of seniority, therefore FOs by necessity of things, but they were also chief pilots and MD88/737 CA paid.
The only majors that had such list of planes and let pilots go (and that I can think of, but I might be wrong), are DL and AA. The junior furloughed by them are 8-10 years seniority guys.
Their remuneration package is north of 150k, since the majors respect longevity pay for the recalled pilots.
I would not be surprised if eventually the vast majority of them takes the last possible recall, to go back having now the new hires below them in seniority.
Last edited by NoSidNoStar; 08-13-2014 at 07:07 PM. Reason: Spelling error
#24
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Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 473
Absolute golden truth statement, for the youngsters to remember.
#25
There present pay at corps was equal to MD88/737 CA pay, hence little reason to return to they major at FO pay. Even counting future pay.
Probably no airline guy left because they just don't have the contacts and knowledge. I did meet a ex-AA guy who took a Chief Pilot job at a well-known PNW location, voluntary early retirement.
GF
Probably no airline guy left because they just don't have the contacts and knowledge. I did meet a ex-AA guy who took a Chief Pilot job at a well-known PNW location, voluntary early retirement.
GF
#26
Absoutle truth, I remember a long time ago when I was a flight instructor there was a corporate King Air on the field and the pilot would take us flight instructors every now and then. Of course I had jets in my eye and couldn't understand why this guy had been flying this King Air for so many years and never wanted to move on. I asked him one day and he told me the bigger the plane the farther you go away from home and the longer you stay away from home. He was home every night and worked probably 3 days a week. Now many years later I look back and think man he was so right.
#27
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Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,383
The two are world of differences apart. If you want to go frac, you need to be VERY flexible. The night before your sched can have you ending up in MDW. Thinking thats going to hold you call Aunt Bea and tell her you will be in town and will visit. Overnight the third shift comes in and pulls the bottom card out of the deck and the whole sched changes.
At the airlines when the flight is sched to leave at 10:17....it leaves at 10:17. In the frac world your pax may be an hour late. Won't tell you until they are an hour late. You need to wait for them meanwhile the catering is getting warm (or cold) and everything is up to you.
Broken plane? At the frac you will probably have another company plane nearby and you will be told to preflight, refile, move bags over , move catering over to the new plane all the while having to baby sit ****ed off pax and write up the broken plane. Airlines? you sit at the gate with the door shut until its either fixed or it is time to move to another tail.....but with lots of help from gate agents/ground personnel etc.
Food? Well I must say it is better in the corp/frac world than the airlines. Nice crew meals if needed. Nice pax catering to pick from when they leave.
Me personally I'm ready for the airlines. I've been doing charter my whole career and can't stand some of the non-flying horse pocky that goes on anymore.
At the airlines when the flight is sched to leave at 10:17....it leaves at 10:17. In the frac world your pax may be an hour late. Won't tell you until they are an hour late. You need to wait for them meanwhile the catering is getting warm (or cold) and everything is up to you.
Broken plane? At the frac you will probably have another company plane nearby and you will be told to preflight, refile, move bags over , move catering over to the new plane all the while having to baby sit ****ed off pax and write up the broken plane. Airlines? you sit at the gate with the door shut until its either fixed or it is time to move to another tail.....but with lots of help from gate agents/ground personnel etc.
Food? Well I must say it is better in the corp/frac world than the airlines. Nice crew meals if needed. Nice pax catering to pick from when they leave.
Me personally I'm ready for the airlines. I've been doing charter my whole career and can't stand some of the non-flying horse pocky that goes on anymore.
#28
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Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 473
There present pay at corps was equal to MD88/737 CA pay, hence little reason to return to they major at FO pay. Even counting future pay.
Probably no airline guy left because they just don't have the contacts and knowledge. I did meet a ex-AA guy who took a Chief Pilot job at a well-known PNW location, voluntary early retirement.
GF
Probably no airline guy left because they just don't have the contacts and knowledge. I did meet a ex-AA guy who took a Chief Pilot job at a well-known PNW location, voluntary early retirement.
GF
I wish there will be more jobs like that available for all of us. It is funny how a lot of these jobs, which are rare, land on the lap of ex-airline guys. May be the bosses are impressed by the heavy metal experience they have, even if that does not really apply to the skills set required for a corporate job. And this jobs are statistically so scarce. At least in the majors, about 50% of pilots are CA, while here not even 5% are chief pilots of heavy metal, and some of them are ex-airlines. Ironical. Additionally many reach those position for ass kissing rather then for merits. Very political game.
I also know one ex-legacy guy that went to fly a 91 turboprop, but he also took the voluntary early retirement, walking away with enough money to live the rest of his life very comfortably, and the KA200 job was more like an excuses to leave the house.
I wish we had that option in corporate, when the company shrinks; instead few of us are fortunate to have severance packages. The maximum I heard it was 6 months of base salary and one year of medical. We have 3 months.
These are all facts to keep in mind for the youngsters deciding in which sector to pursue their career. The more I think of it, the more I feel I am ready to try the 121 jump myself. After all I could always try to come back later, may be taking an early retirement package. The other way around is more difficult, as historically only a couple of majors accept corporate pilots.
The only things I know I would miss are the longer international stays in 5 stars hotels. Every trip is like a small vacation, between 5 to ten days. That does not happen in any airlines and I really enjoy it.
That and parking my car 50 feet from the plane.
But overall, I think I can live without those, in exchange for more money (after the initial pay cut), much safer flights, more stable path toward retirement, way easier preparation for the flights, less pressure on the job, more support for the flights, and more real scheduled hard days off.
That is it, I just conviced myself.
#29
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Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: NJA CE680 terminated
Posts: 124
Lear,
You are right on but left out one thing. If you have to commute for an airline job, it can suck. Home based frac flying is a great perk. However, if you live at your base, airline is just as good or, maybe, better.
Sailaway
You are right on but left out one thing. If you have to commute for an airline job, it can suck. Home based frac flying is a great perk. However, if you live at your base, airline is just as good or, maybe, better.
Sailaway
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 473
The two are world of differences apart. If you want to go frac, you need to be VERY flexible. The night before your sched can have you ending up in MDW. Thinking thats going to hold you call Aunt Bea and tell her you will be in town and will visit. Overnight the third shift comes in and pulls the bottom card out of the deck and the whole sched changes.
At the airlines when the flight is sched to leave at 10:17....it leaves at 10:17. In the frac world your pax may be an hour late. Won't tell you until they are an hour late. You need to wait for them meanwhile the catering is getting warm (or cold) and everything is up to you.
Broken plane? At the frac you will probably have another company plane nearby and you will be told to preflight, refile, move bags over , move catering over to the new plane all the while having to baby sit ****ed off pax and write up the broken plane. Airlines? you sit at the gate with the door shut until its either fixed or it is time to move to another tail.....but with lots of help from gate agents/ground personnel etc.
Food? Well I must say it is better in the corp/frac world than the airlines. Nice crew meals if needed. Nice pax catering to pick from when they leave.
Me personally I'm ready for the airlines. I've been doing charter my whole career and can't stand some of the non-flying horse pocky that goes on anymore.
At the airlines when the flight is sched to leave at 10:17....it leaves at 10:17. In the frac world your pax may be an hour late. Won't tell you until they are an hour late. You need to wait for them meanwhile the catering is getting warm (or cold) and everything is up to you.
Broken plane? At the frac you will probably have another company plane nearby and you will be told to preflight, refile, move bags over , move catering over to the new plane all the while having to baby sit ****ed off pax and write up the broken plane. Airlines? you sit at the gate with the door shut until its either fixed or it is time to move to another tail.....but with lots of help from gate agents/ground personnel etc.
Food? Well I must say it is better in the corp/frac world than the airlines. Nice crew meals if needed. Nice pax catering to pick from when they leave.
Me personally I'm ready for the airlines. I've been doing charter my whole career and can't stand some of the non-flying horse pocky that goes on anymore.
The broken plane scenario can get worst than that too.
In corporate or charter you probably have to stay with the plane until it gets fixed, sometimes on the ramp, cold or hot, supervising the mx guys when you are not in your home base but in a big international airport without FBO. In the mean while, the boss is pressuring you as the situation is your fault. Your duty day has been 18+ hours and you don't even you still have to find your own accommodation for the forced lay-over.
In the airlines you can always take a walk to the Starbucks or equivalent and call scheduling when you are close to max out of duty to get you an hotel room.
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