skydisaster

In my first 12 months on the 680, I did 480 hours. That was with three months on the old 18 day schedule and the rest on the 7/7.

My longest leg has been 6.2. I have only done 6 legs in a day once. Two and three leg days are most common on the 680 with some Hot Spare and 4 leg days mixed in.


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jetlag7

400 - 500/yr is a pretty good ballpark .... don't expect to come to NJ to "build time" if that is your objective....

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Macjet

Having spent eight years on the NJA seniority list before leaving I'm curious as to what the allure of NJA is now? I'd estimate 25% of the guys I still know there are actively trying to leave or have already accepted the buyout. Why are new hires attracted to the company?

David Puddy

Having left after 8 years, are you happier where you are now? What aspects are better and worse than what you experienced at Netjets?

badtransam97

Maybe more will leave to make room for us who want to be there lol!
Seriously though, the reason I want to be there is their system, and others with similar schedules, positive spacing, etc..work for me and my family. We are not going to move for a job, and NetJets has the better pay and benefits pkg of any other fractional type company that I'm aware of.
I realize I'd probably never see the left seat, and I'm ok with that. I'm not the primary breadwinner, and we make it just fine on what I make now, which is significantly less than starting FO pay at NJA. It's not all about the money at a 121 for me..it's more about scheduling, basing, and QOL for me.

Tiggerpilot

Well that's good, b/c anyone wanting commiserate pay to the legacies, career progression, and the ability to make their own schedule should DEFINITELY go somewhere else.

Being a 11 yr FO in the XL, with no hope for upgrading in the next 3-5 years is a special kind of purgatory that I would warn anybody from. Some will listen, others apparently enjoy pain.

Macjet

Happier? Yes, very much so. I spent my career in 91/135/91k before going 121 and kick myself for wasting so much time in the small airplanes. With NJA in particular I grew very tired of loading the bags, briefing the pax, dealing with egos, whining kids, wiping down the windows, wiping the tray tables, stocking nuts/Tootsie Rolls/gum, coffee, ice, papers, stocking the galley, stocking the closet, etc. I was a maid for the passengers and had to do all that in a small (680) airplane continuously bent over. I hated siting FBO rot never knowing where we were going or when. I now know where I'm going, when, and where I'll be staying. I plan my overnights whether it's visiting Independence Hall in PHL, having Italian in SAN, or visiting family or friends across the rest of our system. That's a higher QOL for me.

On schedules, I lost the year in advance knowledge of my week on/week off and traded that for a system where I can drop, trade, or pick up. I mostly directly control my schedule and enjoy a much high QOL on that aspect. I had one four day pairing this month I couldn't drop and had to make personal arrangements to accommodate that. The rest of the month is per my design. We are growing and not always optimally staffed and it's not perfect but it is better. I'm at more of my kids games now than I ever was before.

Leaving NJA I took a pretty good cut in pay and benefits. NJA benefits lead the industry across the board by far. That is a loss in the checkbook in the short term but will pay itself back in spades in just a few years once our contract is brought up to industry standards. The crew food at NJA was handy but really become crap (except TYS) in the last year. Airport food can be good, usually isn't, and is expensive. I pack a lot of my own food but did that at NJA as well. The travel benefits with my airline are far better than the miles we got at NJA. My jumpseat ability and ID90 are far better benefits. Not having the Diamond status costs me a few breakfasts at the few Hilton's we stay at. The loss of Atlantic bucks is minimal. I averaged $300 a year but last week with our conflict language and FAR 117 was paid 24 hours of credit and a day off for 3.3 hour flight. That's $1,800 even at our crappy pay rates and something I see at least every other month. I'll gladly make that trade. I had three after midnights at NJA over 8 years by contrast.

I hate Citations. With a !@#$^ passion. Horrible, cramped, uncomfortable airplanes. And looking at a future in a Phenom was unbearable. I love the Airbus. It is an incredibly comfortable airplane and that's really the only seat I worry about. I have other people load it, fuel it, cater it, and clean it. I get in, hit on the hot F/A's (if there are any), and then turn left and worry about flying. This has been a huge improvement for me.

I want money and I want days off to be able to enjoy my time with my kids. Working 18 days a month for Bridgeway was not something that I wanted to do for the rest of my career. I had 19 days off this month by comparison with 89 hours of credit and usually have 16-20 off depending on how I build my lines. Some months are better than others and a few have plain sucked. As I gain seniority things do get better.

Seniority, I had 200 below me at NJA and have 500 now with half the pilots.

That said, I live in base and enjoy a lot of things that our commuters don't. As such, my experience is that of a mid seniority pilot living in base and will probably differ than a lot of you. If you live in Bumfudge, Montana and want to fly jets then I'd probably go with NJA as well. That said, we have a lot of former NJA pilots here. None, myself included, regret for one second of one minute of one day leaving.

I miss City BBQ. I don't miss wearing a O2 mask going from HPN-SJC at M.65.

Tiggerpilot

Nothing has changed Macjet. I'd say 60% of the pilots I know here want to leave. Most FOs and a few Captains.

The problem is there has been no "career progression" (unless your a Capt.). Applying and getting an interview at a legacy is a challenge when in such a rut.

Macjet

My airline doesn't want non-121 pilots. That's just a fact. It was an uphill battle with several very well placed internal recommendations that got me here. I got lucky, very lucky. 91 guys don't fare well too well in 121 training. FlightSafety, CAE, SimCom, etc are a joke and 91 guys have a failure rate that is well outside the normal distribution. I can imagine the legacies have had the same experience. Non-121 pilots can get hired with us but they are the exception and definitely not the norm. Less than 10% of our new hires come from the 91/91k/135 world. Regional guys are sucked up left and right. They've gone through it, with much less experience, and just need a new type now. It is two different worlds. Having been through multiple trainings programs in the civilian and military worlds this was the most difficult by far.

Eventually there won't be enough well qualified guys left to interview and the guy on his 11th year slinging gear in an XL will get the call. But how many years down the road and how many seniority numbers is that? I had two 121 interviews lined up and I took the first one that offered me a job. Fortunately, it was also my number one choice.

When I was hired at NJA they told me welcome to my last flying job. They were damn near right. The funk of being an NJA pilot took a long time to shed. I wish everyone there luck. Great group of pilots and I hope they all can find a rewarding career at or outside NJA.

David Puddy

Very good review Macjet. The challenge is that one's opinions and perceptions about QOL are all relative... If you flew a crop duster for years (probably fun), flying a Citation throughout the country is probably a big step up. If you flew a Citation for a a random 135 operator, the Netjets schedule probably sounds like a big improvement. If you flew 121 where pilot tasks beyond flying are limited, flying fractional or 135 would seem like a lot of work.

Having flown both 121 and 135, I can agree that 121 was a lot easier and it now seems like a very good option. With its new contract, even Allegiant seems much more appealing these days. Flying a comfy Airbus on scheduled 121 flights for good money sounds pretty inviting. In the end, it's all relative...

The good thing about this forum is that opinions and perspectives like yours can be shared...