Go Back   Airline Pilot Central Forums > Pilot Lounge > Hangar Talk
Register FAQ Advertising Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Hangar Talk For non-aviation-related discussion and aviation threads that don't belong elsewhere

 

Welcome to Airline Pilot Forums

    Already registered? Login above

OR
 
To take advantage of all the site's features, become a member of
the largest community of airline pilots in the U.S. and beyond.

The advertising to the left will not show if you are a registered user.

Join the Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-07-2006, 08:56 PM   #1 (permalink)
Imeneo
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Owning Your Own Airplane (Cessna 210)

I've been dreaming of this since I started my PPL over 10 months ago. Perhaps someday when I have the money I will buy a plane and just do island hopping in the Caribbean.

There are several planes that I like at least asthetically, the Cessna Cardinal (177), Rockwell Commander 114, and especially the Cessna 210. There was a Cessna 210M was on eBay.com several weeks ago and the photos just took my breath away... what a well kept, good looking airplane! Three blade props, retractable gear and 6 passengers, the Cessna 210 is the plane of my dreams... hopefully one day when I'm able to afford one, there might be a few in such good condition as the one in the attached photo.

I guess what this all boils down to is that once you pay your 150K for an airplane, what kinds of expenses do you incur regularly or even periodically to keep the plane in flying order. I've been told that at some point you have to replace the engine and that costs upwards of 15K for a low time used one.

Additionally, what might be the size of your loan payments each month as well as the cost of insurance? I've heard that insurance can get pretty expensive, but then again I've heard people say that $80/month for car insurance was pretty expensive.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg e7_3.jpg (45.1 KB, 180 views)

Last edited by Imeneo; 04-07-2006 at 09:00 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Advertising above will not show if you are a registered user.
Old 04-07-2006, 09:00 PM   #2 (permalink)
Self Employed.
 
SkyHigh's Avatar
 
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Self-employed, C-150 CA
Posts: 7,019
Default Expenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imeneo
I've been dreaming of this since I started my PPL over 10 months ago. Perhaps someday when I have the money I will buy a plane and just do island hopping in the Caribbean.

There are several planes that I like at least asthetically, the Cessna Cardinal (177), Rockwell Commander 114, and especially the Cessna 210. A Cessna 210M was on eBay.com several weeks ago and the photos just took my breath away... what a well kept, good looking airplane!

I guess what this all boils down to is that once you pay your 150K for an airplane, what kinds of expenses do you incur regularly or even periodically to keep the plane in flying order. I've been told that at some point you have to replace the engine and that costs upwards of 15K for a low time used one.

Additionally, what might be the size of your loan payments each month as well as the cost of insurance? I've heard that insurance can get pretty expensive, but then again I've heard people say that $80/month for car insurance was pretty expensive.

That Cessna 210 might cost you 8,000 to 10,000 thousand per year to insure. Plus at least 3,000 to 5,000 per annual. Unless you are filthy rich I would stick to planes with only two seats, much cheaper.

SkyHigh
SkyHigh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2006, 01:16 PM   #3 (permalink)
Gets Weekends Off
 
supersix-4's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: CLE Steamer
Posts: 513
Default

A good theory with general aviation is if you have to ask how much then it's too much.. Every customer we sell an aircraft to can easily afford the expenses. A overhaul for a 210 engine will cost you 25g easily. Not including labour to install,( keep the original engine) annuals on retractables are almost double. There are many new costs to operating your own airplane. I would suggest going to a broker at your local airport for some free advise. If you have the funds to match your desires then go for it. The only limiting factor will then be insurance. Insurance companies may think a 210 is a little bit too much of an airplane for a low-time pilot and not insure it or charge you out the wazoo...
supersix-4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2006, 08:06 PM   #4 (permalink)
Gets Weekends Off
 
Pilotpip's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jun 2005
Position: Retired
Posts: 2,903
Default

Six seat aircraft are rediculous to insure. For whatever reason that extra seat will add thousands to your bill. It burns a ton of fuel, which is expensive, and is a difficult aircraft to fly. It's fast, it's heavy, and not something I'd recomend for a low timer. SkyHigh hit the nail on the head.

Add to that the extra money you spend when you gear up that one. Either by your own accord or because of the fact that cessna's retractables have a horrid design.
Pilotpip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2006, 04:05 AM   #5 (permalink)
Gets Weekends Off
 
calcapt's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: 737 Captain
Posts: 777
Default

Figure out what it will cost to own and then double it - you might be close. I jumped into high performance aircraft ownership five years ago and lasted four years. I was staggered by how much it cost. Rent my friend or find an owner that will let you fly his/hers. Never again until I hit the lottery, and that might not be enough!
calcapt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2006, 06:36 AM   #6 (permalink)
Self Employed.
 
SkyHigh's Avatar
 
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Self-employed, C-150 CA
Posts: 7,019
Default Cessna 150

I have had more fun for less than the price of a typical bass boat or snowmobile by owning a Cessna 150. Back when I had mine I flew it all over the US and to Alaska and back several times. I never paid more than $200 on an annual and didn't have insurance since I had so little into it. Since it had an autogas STC I could fly it for just a few dollars per hour. I honestly flew it till I was tired and never had my finances cramped or felt guilty for all the money I was spending, which wasn't much. They are easy to buy and to insure. If you have any maintenance skills at all they are easy to work on. It takes longer to get places than in a 210 but when you are young and building time who cares?

SkyHigh
SkyHigh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2006, 07:16 AM   #7 (permalink)
Line Holder
 
Jared's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jul 2005
Position: E190 FO
Posts: 66
Default

I have had more fun for less than the price of a typical bass boat or snowmobile by owning a Cessna 150. Back when I had mine I flew it all over the US and to Alaska and back several times. I never paid more than $200 on an annual and didn't have insurance since I had so little into it. Since it had an autogas STC I could fly it for just a few dollars per hour. I honestly flew it till I was tired and never had my finances cramped or felt guilty for all the money I was spending, which wasn't much. They are easy to buy and to insure. If you have any maintenance skills at all they are easy to work on. It takes longer to get places than in a 210 but when you are young and building time who cares?

To give you a more current picture of pricing for even the inexpensive 150, annuals usually start around $500 for labor. Then add labor and parts for anything that was broken or worn. You know how much more expensive 6 gallons per hour of car gas is, and insurance will probably be a few hundred dollars per year. If the 150 is that expensive, just imagine the 210. In fuel alone, a more realistic burn is 15 gallons per hour, and it doesn't burn car gas so you can about $1.50 to $2.00 per gallon to the price of fuel.

Instead of buying the 210 now, why not buy something more like a 150? You can use it to get your private pilot certificate (often eroneously called a license) and fly it for 100 hours or so. Use that time to decide how much you like flying and owning. You will get an idea for how much a hangar costs (or at least you can get on a waiting list for one). You can discover the reality of the $500 broken whatever that will come up from time to to time. If you financed it, you can pay it off. THen, if you are still ready to buy the 210 (chances are that you will be), get an insurance quote. When you recover from the shock of that, ask the 210 owners that you have met over the past 100 hours about how much their maintenance costs have been. Sell the 150 for more than what you paid for it, and use the proceeds as part of your down payment on the 210.

Your insurance company will probably require an instrument rating before you can solo the 210, but that's ok since you will have met lots of instructors over the previous 100 hours. You might have even found another plane that you like even more than the 210! In the rare chance that you have decided that ownership is not right for you, you will have invested 5 digits in the 150 instead of 6 in the 210. And your insurance company will be much more willing to insure you if you can get some more experience in a less complex airplane. One time I called up an agent to get a quote in an airplane that was more advanced than my experience called for and he kind of laughed and said "no really, how much time do you really have?" I wouldn't want for you to be in the same position.

Keep in mind that flying a 210, while not an extremely complicated task, is much more complicated than flying a 150. You will learn faster and have more fun in the 150 than in the 210, and your chances of success will be much better.
Jared is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2006, 09:24 AM   #8 (permalink)
Imeneo
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Thanks for the reply guys... yes, getting a 210 or similar aircraft is definitely a long way off for me. Starting out simple and small is probably a good idea... as you guys have said.

Anyway... are the costs of a used Cessna Skyhawk (C-172) similar to those of a C-150 or is it an astronomical increase?
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2006, 09:38 AM   #9 (permalink)
Line Holder
 
Jared's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jul 2005
Position: E190 FO
Posts: 66
Default

Purchase prices fluctuate quite a bit based on condition and other things, but I think a pretty fair median price for a 150 is about $25000. For an old 172 (1985 and earlier), I would say that $50000 is probably pretty fair. Of course a new 172 (post 1997 when they started making them again) will be much much more. Insurance costs will be more for the four seater, fuel burn will be about 8-9 gph instead of 5-6, and maintenance will probably be only slightly more.
Jared is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2006, 08:05 PM   #10 (permalink)
Self Employed.
 
SkyHigh's Avatar
 
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Self-employed, C-150 CA
Posts: 7,019
Default Cessna 150

I think a good median price for a 150 is around 18K. Just two weeks ago I had an owner assisted annual done for $350. If you want to pay more you sure can but there are ways of reducing the costs. Do the maintenance yourself.

SkyHigh
SkyHigh is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
 

 
Reply
 



« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hypothetical Question WatchThis! Hangar Talk 69 11-03-2008 04:46 PM
Cessna Citation 3, crash @ HOU SWAcapt Hangar Talk 3 11-05-2005 10:27 PM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:10 AM.


vBulletin® v3.8.6, Copyright ©2000-2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1
Copyright 2000 - 2012 Internet Brands, Inc.