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Wake up call for the rest of Europe

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Wake up call for the rest of Europe

Old 11-29-2015, 08:44 AM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by ShyGuy View Post
If there's something I've learned about most pilots is that they are completely clueless on Middle Eastern studies.
What ME studies, these are Belgians and French "criminals". You sound very confused.
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Old 11-29-2015, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by badflaps View Post
Some where down the line the young guys are going to wonder why the old guys are not blowing themselves up.
And are instead marrying their sisters.
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Old 11-29-2015, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by badflaps View Post
Some where down the line the young guys are going to wonder why the old guys are not blowing themselves up.
Yep, young men die for old men's lies.
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Old 11-29-2015, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by iceman49 View Post
Yep, young men die for old men's lies.
And that's not JUST people that are jihadists or from the M.E.

Shy, sadly many people FROM the M.E. could use a course in M.E. studies themselves. As well as the Quran.
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Old 11-29-2015, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by John Carr View Post
Shy, sadly many people FROM the M.E. could use a course in M.E. studies themselves. As well as the Quran.
As far as anyone knows, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the leader of ISIS, has a doctorate in Islamic Studies. I think he has a pretty good idea of what's in the Quran and how to interpret it. He's found a lot of like-minded folks who grew up marinated in the Quran.
It puzzles me that so many people in the US think that ISIS has nothing to do with Islam. It's like a middle-east political hack telling the Pope that what he practices isn't really Christianity.
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Old 11-29-2015, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ShyGuy View Post
If there's something I've learned about most pilots is that they are completely clueless on Middle Eastern studies.
Originally Posted by ShyGuy View Post
Who said sane people commit mass murder? The Paris attackers had many loose screws. Any person that can just indiscriminately kill other human beings clearly has screws loose in the head and no respect for human life. I question the sanity of these shooters. They aren't wired like the rest of mankind, no matter which sky fairy you end up worshipping.
I have a great deal of empathy for the young Quran believers, following in the path of their prophet and seeking to please Allah. I think they are totally sane. They are wired like any other human, but the software loaded in their heads is much different than someone who has studied in the Western liberal tradition. Given what little experience they have of the world, considering what mental furniture they are working with, and comparing them to some of the misguided rubes (of comparable age) who are students on US campuses, I feel more a sense of loss at what could have been than anger at them personally. This isn't about mass insanity, this is about people with a strong belief system (and a long heritage of that system's dominance from Spain to the Philippines) acting on their beliefs. You can call it crazy all you want, but I think you should stare at the problem a little longer before writing them off as lunatics.
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Old 11-29-2015, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Fluglehrer View Post
As far as anyone knows, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the leader of ISIS, has a doctorate in Islamic Studies. I think he has a pretty good idea of what's in the Quran and how to interpret it TO SUIT HIS OWN AGENDA. He's found a lot of like-minded folks who grew up marinated in the Quran.
Fixed it for you.

Originally Posted by Fluglehrer View Post
I have a great deal of empathy for the young Quran believers, following in the path of their prophet and seeking to please Allah. I think they are totally sane. They are wired like any other human, but the software loaded in their heads is much different than someone who has studied in the Western liberal tradition. Given what little experience they have of the world, considering what mental furniture they are working with, and comparing them to some of the misguided rubes (of comparable age) who are students on US campuses, I feel more a sense of loss at what could have been than anger at them personally. This isn't about mass insanity, this is about people with a strong belief system (and a long heritage of that system's dominance from Spain to the Philippines) acting on their beliefs. You can call it crazy all you want, but I think you should stare at the problem a little longer before writing them off as lunatics.
Or you could sum it up with the almost cliche "they're stuck in a time period of 800-900 years ago".

Which begs the question, how do you advance the "software loaded in their heads", get them more "experience in the world", and get them to stop "acting on their beliefs"?
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Old 11-29-2015, 02:08 PM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry3NzkAOo3s
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Old 11-29-2015, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by ShyGuy View Post
If there's something I've learned about most pilots is that they are completely clueless on Middle Eastern studies.
There are a number of us on this board who have lived in the region for a portion of our lives, "participating in the political process" you could say. I haven't been there since the '90's (Saudi, Kuwait, and Turkey).

There's a lot of history there, so focusing on the last 25 years is myopic. Go back at least a half-century to Sayid Quttib, but preferably go way back to pre-muslim times, and for Islam it is important to understand the early schisms/differences in succession that divide the Sunni and Shia to this day. The history of the Caliphate and the Ottoman Empire is compelling, and will help one understand the motivation driving ISIS, and why they are finding so many willing accomplices across the globe.

Bring some empathy.
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Old 11-29-2015, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Fluglehrer View Post
There are a number of us on this board who have lived in the region for a portion of our lives, "participating in the political process" you could say. I haven't been there since the '90's (Saudi, Kuwait, and Turkey).

There's a lot of history there, so focusing on the last 25 years is myopic. Go back at least a half-century to Sayid Quttib, but preferably go way back to pre-muslim times, and for Islam it is important to understand the early schisms/differences in succession that divide the Sunni and Shia to this day. The history of the Caliphate and the Ottoman Empire is compelling, and will help one understand the motivation driving ISIS, and why they are finding so many willing accomplices across the globe.

Bring some empathy.
Can't put out facts like that. Facts are irrelevant. Someone on here thinks no one has ever picked up a history book, when they are the ones who need to do a little studying!
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