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Great Lakes Hiring?

Old 01-19-2010, 10:35 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by Copperhed51 View Post
I figured on a quick upgrade which would have made the pay almost acceptable. Additionally, I really had no idea it was as bad as it is. From what I've heard from people who have been around for a while or are back due to furlough from somewhere else, things are much worse right now at Lakes than they've ever been. Anyway, being stuck in the right seat at Lakes is not a happy place to be and movement is painfully slow right now. When I was hired, there were supposed to be 100 more hired after me to cover new flying we'd been awarded. Company ended up giving back the EAS contracts and the flying was canceled. My stint at TSA involved an eerily similar story.
hahaha good one. Chose to go for the upgrade? You didn't know?? How fast were you expecting to uprade, 3.9 months? You just said you wanted to ditch Great Lakes for Trans states yet you are probably closer to being able to upgrade now then you ever were before at GL or ever will be at TSA. Instead of saying I didn't know it was this bad, why don't you just tell everyone that inquires you that Great Lakes was your only option besides hard labor on the ramp or McDonalds or pref hiring at Go--JetS which didn't work out. Stop badmouthing the company which you chose to go to, encouraging illegal job actions, and discouraging people that have no other options to find work from applying there.

I think everyone knows what awaits them when their company makes you pay to get to the interview, doesn't pay for training, puts you up in the middle of nowhere, pays about 1000 per month probalby less than unemployment, and on top of that makes you sign a training contract for 15 months!!!! And that's for training that costs the company pretty much nothing since that's part of a budget they get anyways with their contracts. Please..
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Old 01-19-2010, 11:08 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by Copperhed51 View Post
Anybody who does come to Lakes better have a backbone and be willing to stand up for themselves when it comes to fatigue and poor scheduling practices. Yes, the pay and work rules at Lakes are atrocious. There is no defending the place. Lots of people use the "well, we make more per passenger seat than the other regionals" argument. That may be mostly true, but it doesn't make the pay ok. Before you come here, realize you will be miserable and extremely poor. The people are cool but that only helps so much. Also realize that after 11 months here, if you want to leave, you're going to have to either suck it up and stay another 4 months or pay the training contract off. My advice is to stay away, but it's up to you.
The pay/passenger seat argument doesn't make any sense, by itself. You have to look at industry average pay for the same or similar aircraft type(s), as well. We have never been at the top of 19 seat pay. Our pay is inexcusable. However, saying that, I think pay at almost all regionals is totally unacceptable and inexcusable. Pay on some of the larger RJs should be very, very similar to some of the smaller major airline aircraft. It absolutely is not. To our credit, though, we are doing our best to work on pay and QOL issues, through our union, and continuing negotiations. The thing is, Great Lakes is really one of the only true commuter airlines left in existence. Most other regionals were, at one time, similar to Great Lakes, with relatively poor pay and poor QOL, with 19 seat turbo-prop aircraft. Since the advent of the RJ, a big part of the regional airline business has really just become being ***** houses of discount pilot labor. Did major airline pilots allow this to happen? Perhaps a small part of the responsibility lies with them. But, it was also regional pilots, as a whole, who were willing to accept pay and QOL that was significantly worse than the major airlines, for doing the same job. Just because you can easily pay your bills by being severely underpaid to fly a 70+ seat aircraft, doesn't make it any more acceptable than barely paying your bills by being severely underpaid to fly a 19 seat aircraft. Could I recommend Lakes to anyone right now? Not with the current level of movement in this industry. The risk of the investment is not really worth the low probability of the return on the investment; which could really be said about this entire profession. Perhaps if you really need a job, it may be a reasonable option. Or, maybe if you are really young, and have enough time in your life to wait and see if your risky investment will pay off. Otherwise, I would wait until the next contract is agreed to, if you really want to come to Lakes. Even if our pay never equals the pay on any sort of RJ, at least it would be more acceptable if it was somewhat close to industry average for aircraft size/type. The pilot group is absolutely awesome, like Copper said. That is one of the things that keeps me hanging on.

Last edited by 1900luxuryliner; 01-19-2010 at 11:44 PM.
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Old 01-20-2010, 11:33 AM
  #23  
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Also; half of the FO side of the seniority list has enough flight time to upgrade, and are chomping at the bit to do so. You would end up below them, probably have to wait to upgrade after them, and probably end up with FMN as your domicile. A few years ago, Lakes made more sense, as the seniority list was moving like wild fire, we were expanding our service exponentially, upgrades happened as soon as you had the flight time, and everyone was hiring. The risk of the investment was worth the probability of a good return. Plus, a few years ago, your domicile would have been a hub that was somewhat commutable. Guys based in FMN are driving to DRO, and jumping out from there, because Lake's service to FMN is inadequate for easy commuting. If you have a stretch of 3 days off, you will, at very least, lose 1 day to commuting, because the FMN lines, historically, have not been very commutable; especially for the junior guys, since everyone in FMN is specifically bidding for a commutable schedule...because noone is crazy enough to actually want to live in that hell hole. I'm not trying to actively discourage anyone from applying. I just want people to know what Lakes is about, and for them to make sure it is the best fit for them, before they apply. For some unique individuals, it may be a great fit. For a lot of people, however, it may not be the best option for them, until this industry really starts moving in a big way again.

Last edited by 1900luxuryliner; 01-20-2010 at 12:52 PM. Reason: Added point
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Old 01-21-2010, 08:52 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by 1900luxuryliner View Post
Also; half of the FO side of the seniority list has enough flight time to upgrade, and are chomping at the bit to do so. You would end up below them, probably have to wait to upgrade after them, and probably end up with FMN as your domicile. A few years ago, Lakes made more sense, as the seniority list was moving like wild fire, we were expanding our service exponentially, upgrades happened as soon as you had the flight time, and everyone was hiring. The risk of the investment was worth the probability of a good return. Plus, a few years ago, your domicile would have been a hub that was somewhat commutable. Guys based in FMN are driving to DRO, and jumping out from there, because Lake's service to FMN is inadequate for easy commuting. If you have a stretch of 3 days off, you will, at very least, lose 1 day to commuting, because the FMN lines, historically, have not been very commutable; especially for the junior guys, since everyone in FMN is specifically bidding for a commutable schedule...because noone is crazy enough to actually want to live in that hell hole. I'm not trying to actively discourage anyone from applying. I just want people to know what Lakes is about, and for them to make sure it is the best fit for them, before they apply. For some unique individuals, it may be a great fit. For a lot of people, however, it may not be the best option for them, until this industry really starts moving in a big way again.
When I was based in FMN I pretty much wouldn't go home unless I had 4 days off. Otherwise it just wasn't worth it because I'd basically lose 2 days to the commute back and forth. Like luxuryliner said, Lakes is the only boat into/out of FMN and our service is unreliable and those flights are often times quite full. To use our commuter clause, we had to list on 2 flights that would get us there in time for our show which meant showing really early on the day before your trip. I never missed a commute but I didn't do it very much. If things start moving again, this may not be such a bad place to be. I guess the flip side of that is if you get in now and things eventually start moving again, you'll have the seniority and flight time to upgrade as soon as possible and will have a bunch of people under you. I wonder if it would be helpful to start a thread where Lakers describe what illegal or unethical thing is done to them by the company each day. I think it would be very eye-opening for a lot of people.
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Old 11-09-2010, 05:41 PM
  #25  
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Has the chain starting moving again?
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Old 11-09-2010, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by FSUpilot View Post
forgot about that damn training contract... i just finished one of those... never again!
You are paying your dues now, dont pay more dues by going to GLA, that would be a step back in your situation. Soon people will be able to be picky about what regional they fly for, just wait a little bit longer for that, its coming, i feel it.
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Old 11-10-2010, 10:20 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by TheBills View Post
You are paying your dues now, dont pay more dues by going to GLA, that would be a step back in your situation. Soon people will be able to be picky about what regional they fly for, just wait a little bit longer for that, its coming, i feel it.
dude look at the dates.. i posted this almost a year ago.. Im waiting calm yourself down.

sushi or a beer when you get back to abq?
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Old 11-10-2010, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by MtnPeakCruiser View Post
Has the chain starting moving again?
well according to this website most junior captain was hired NOV 09 which puts upgrades right around a year. This is pretty consistent with that i have heard from current employees as well.
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Old 11-10-2010, 03:15 PM
  #29  
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If you've got a sugarmomma, do yourself a favor and wait it out. I know that things can get boring, but accepting a job that pays extremely poorly will do you, and the entire industry, a huge injustice in the long term.

I'm not putting down any particular airline, but there are several airlines out there that prey on newbies and their youthful eagerness.
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Old 11-11-2010, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by FSUpilot View Post
dude look at the dates.. i posted this almost a year ago.. Im waiting calm yourself down.

sushi or a beer when you get back to abq?
Woops.....
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