Whaledriver

The issue is the Polar crew member no longer technically exists, so the Polar side cannot be resolved with a going forward fix. It also needs to be solved for those that aren't here anymore and for past grievance action, ie a settlement. A dollar an hour extra does nothing for those that have retired or been furloughed, FE's. In another view, the $1 an hour extra, simply fixes this contract, does nothing for the years of violation on the Polar CM's. I'm sure a few phone calls were made to Ex-Polar leadership for input.

Man, I hope all of you guys are running for office, you have ALL the answers!

Whaledriver

I don't see a way to attach a file to PM's????

JerrySpringer

I always forget how to successfully defend an indefensible position.

Luckily, the answer can always be found on the internet with little searching.

744driver

Guys,

Unless you are part of the process (meaning, part of the negotiations that an ExCo, MEC, etc engages in on a daily basis), nobody really knows...so, stop blaming the everyone, and start living by the CBA.

Okay, so you say, "well, I do it everyday"...fine, then get everyone around you to live by the CBA...especially the week-kneed senior guys that are always out to finish the mission!! Showing solidarity by following the CBA (yes, even this one!) is the first step to getting a better one next time.

Whaledriver

Don't always blame the old guys. Just flew with three FO's that didn't know they could demand ten hours rest.

cargowannabe

No $&!+, the three fo's are either idiots or lazy, i am voting on both. I would venture to say that less than 20% of the pilot group have read the 1224 bylaws or constitution and MAYBE 50% have read the CBA. People hear rely on the breakfast table version of the CBA and don't have a clue what is truly in it. Funny enough they start off a conversation in the cockpit by saying "let me tell you what travel did to me........"

This place really does crack me the +=&# up! Please please please educate yourself, live by the CBA and above all vote in the upcoming election!

For the prospects that may want to come here, it really is not that bad of a place to work, just need to convert the 10%'ers.

Cargo

KYTBRD

There are two things I've learned (hopefully more than just 2, but these are key) over the past 1.5 years. It's it's not a mission, it's a flight. And the other is, I'm not "alerted" to my flight, I received my "wake-up notification".

Thus changing it from a military point of view to a civilian point of view.

I do agreed that more folks need to learn the CBA. Even I find folks in both the Capt and FO position that need to read the rules. If I hear something that's "odd" I usually open up my iPad and try to find it. Otherwise the old phrase of "can you tell me where that's written" usually works.

744driver

KYTBRD,

First, thank you for your more than two decades of service to keep me and my family safe...I mean no disrespect towards you and others that have served our country.

When I use the phrase "mission-oriented", I am really referring to the group of our pilots (both Captains, and FOs; mostly senior, but certainly some that are junior; and those that have served in our Armed Forces or not) that refuse to educate themselves, refuse to believe that after more than two decades as a very successful company, the pilot group deserves and should demand top-tier wages, work rules, and retirement.

I actually heard a very senior Captain (top 25 on our list) tell me (incredulously) why I demanded a Business Class ticket a few months ago from Calgary to get home. He was wondering why I could not be satisfied in Coach/Economy for the 3-hour flight. He actually asked me why I was so fixated on "sticking it to the Company"...yes, he actually said those words!!

My answer was simple..."Because it is in the CBA, and we all have to make sure the company respects what they have agreed to". Of course, I can ride in Economy for a few hours...but that misses the point. It misses the fact that both sides have an obligation to follow the CBA...

It is NEVER okay for me to ignore the CBA, and if I do, I can expect to get a call from the Chief Pilot...and guess what?...

It is NEVER okay for the company to ignore the CBA, and if they do, I will call them on it...every time.

That is the only way we can be respected as professionals, and that is the only way we will be able to gain a better CBA for our families.

Okay, rant over, KYTBRD...hang in there, brother...and thanks for your support.

easyflying

744driver, I think you nailed it on the head. Many here think that the ones that follow the CBA are out to "stick it to the company". Sad to see that this is how they think and not that it's what we bargained for.

Contract 2016.

KYTBRD

744: no offense taken. I've definitely chilled out over the last yr. I was pointing out the difference between mission and flight. Often I hear folks make sure "us" mil folks don't refer to it as a mission. Whatever anyone wants to call it, each pattern should be completed safely within the rules governing our flight operations and the CBA. As to what the updated CBA looks like, we all have ideas and suggestions that will certainly improve quality of life. I'm just probably not the right person to figure that out right now since I'm new to union politics. Nor was I present when the current contract was signed. All I know is hearsay (he said she said). But if I was to asses from an outside perspective I would say that instead of the current situation being union negotiating with the company it 'a union guy vs union guy right now. Mostly because folks don't read what's already there. How can folks argue for a new contract in one breath and then not know what's in the current one? Seems counterintuitive. As a new guy it's sad to see so much focus on the past and not focusing on real negotiations arguments for next year. while some info on his thread is relevant I think the nit noid. Details should be on the union board. It's not always productive to show your a$$ in public.